A Little Social Commentary
“Watch God work! What the devil meant for evil God will turn it around. The fight for right has just began. Stay tuned.”
Link: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/10/11/deion-sanders-is-fired-by-deion-sanders-school/
Ok, this is the part where I get up on my soap box and piss some of you off and then send Jason “Chico and The Man” off on a rant.
Whether you are religious or not, and I am, you have to see the absolute hypocrisy, not to mention douchebaggery, in trying to use the “God is on my side” Defense for any episode for which you are criticized, much less one for which you are being investigated criminally and have been fired for.
What you are basically saying is, “I don’t have a salient argument to defend what I have done, so I am going to tell you that you are wrong and that I don’t have to listen to you because I believe that what I did was right. Further, since you disagree with me, you are a part of the problem. I will disregard what you have to say and do everything in my power to render your views completely irrelevant. Because, while they might make sense if I actually stopped to consider them, they also contradict my own views and I’m too small minded to consider the possibility that I could be wrong.”
This one situation is a microcosm of what is wrong with our society right now. From a political and social standpoint, we figuratively run around with our fingers in our ears yelling, “Dah, dah, dah, dah, dah, I’m not listening to you!” anytime someone says something we disagree with. This doesn’t even touch on the fact that most religious people don’t try to hide behind their religion when they’ve acted badly because they know it’s hypocritical and sends the wrong message to people who are inherently distrustful and intolerant of organized religion.
And I also posted it just because Deion Sanders is a F%^king Jagoff.
Hey I’m sure god, the worlds “sky daddy” is looking out for Deion. I mean shit 25,000 kids die everyday which god does nothing about, but if you watch the nfl you will see that god is very active helping players score touchdowns, get sacks, and other splash plays. It only makes sense that god would help an ex player….obviously!!!
The need to invoke god is evidence that god doesn’t exist, at least not the version invoked by the invoker. If it exists, you shouldn’t ever need to resort to making its name a public spectacle in your own defense. In fact, as I recall, Jesus made that point himself.
When Deion or any other meathead athlete invokes god, he is only projecting his own image of himself. In Deion’s world, god wears an Armani suit and has a relentlessly big mouth.
Great point copanut, nicely said!
There is plenty of evidence for God if you open your hearts and minds . In fact , the evidence is overwhelming . Deion will only be judged by God , not by anyone else . We dont know where his heart is so to call him a d-bag or hypocrite for invoking the name of God plays right into the hands of all non believers . Always looking for a hole in someones armor to challenge their beliefs . We all screw up and no one is promised a perfect life … only the chance of an everlasting one .
I will agree that Mr Sanders does have a big mouth.
I do agree with your point about plenty of evidence for God though, Earl.
This truly is not the place for this kind of debate as I would not want to anger our Steelers constituents who come from all faiths and none. But this statement can’t go completely unchallenged.
One could make the claim that there is evidence of what might be called god, i.e., some creative force. One could even claim that this is self evident. Although there is no evidence that such a creative force is intelligent, directed, personal, or in any sense supernatural, I have nothing against people wanting to believe this is the case.
When you go on to capitalize the word to “God”, that’s something else again, as it implies a particular god, and I will claim that there is no evidence for any particular god, or a god that is sentient or personal, outside of the mind of the believer or the books and writings of other believers. But that’s okay. It’s everyone’s right to believe whatever they want so long as it doesn’t infringe on the comparable rights of others.
Let’s not use the generic word “god”, which has no unambiguous meaning. Let’s instead be clear what we really mean. If we mean Yahweh, then say Yahweh. If we mean Jesus, say it. If we mean Zeus, Allah, Odin, Thor, Shiva, Vishnu, Mithra, Baal, or some other god, let’s be clear on that. I will state that there is no more objective evidence for Yahweh than there is for any other deity. Indeed, there is much evidence against the existence of any of these entities, at least if their associated dogmas are to be taken seriously and literally.
Whatever creative force exists does so despite human-created dogmas, and there is no evidence (outside of evidence created by the human mind or hand) that there is any creative force that cares one jot or tittle about what a football player, or anyone else, says or does.
I suppose my comments could be written off as “Always looking for a hole in someones armor to challenge their beliefs.” Hardly. I never initiate a topic like this as I consider beliefs to be personal business. But if beliefs are going to be bandied about with words that imply that they are unassailable fact, it’s going to invite some kind of response.
Which is probably why we should stick to football.
And aben, this commentary is really not directed at you personally, as I respect your position on this. It’s not directed at Earl either, really. It’s directed at the thread itself. Please take it as such.
Deion, and every other person who hides behind God instead of making a principled statement when defending their actions, has already played right “into the hands of non-believers” and strengthened their convictions and distrust.
Mr. Sanders and the people like him make me sick and do nothing but feed their own vanity by comparing their own motivations to God’s. Deion IS a hypocrite. And the numerous examples of this kind of douchebaggery are nothing but self serving attempts to rationalize bad behavior. Your concern seemed to be the reinforcement of non-believers ideals. I object to what he did because I think that Deion has already reinforced them.
Why I love the Amish.
Nice retort, James.
It isn’t always good to be Amish.
A moose walks into a bar. The bartender asks…… “Why the long face?”
We could debate this all day and never agree . Lets do politics instead 🙂
The burden of proof is on the believer and there is no evidence for a god, hence the whole point….faith.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnGo6Qm0Wt8
Please watch this .. the entire clip
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJpEQEs-6bs
The Firesign Theatre on Creation Myths
From The Firesign Theatre’s I Think We’re All Bozos On This Bus, as transcribed from The Firesign Theatre’s Big Book of Plays…
Sounds: The [previous] line merges with a rolling of thunder. Wolves howl.
Voice Of God: Before the Beginning there was this Turtle. And the Turtle was alone. And he looked around, and he saw his neighbor, which was his Mother. And he lay down on top of his neighbor, and behold, she bore him in tears, an oak tree. Which grew all day, and then fell over, like a bridge. And lo, under the bridge there came a Catfish, and he was very big, and he was walking, and he was the biggest he had seen. [Fading] And so were the firey [sic] balls of this fish, one of which is the Sun, and the other, they called the Moon…
Expert Voice: Yes, some uncomplicated peoples still believe this myth. But here, in the technical vastness of the Future, we can guess that surely the Past was very different. We can surmise, for instance, that these two great balls… [Cross fading]
Dr. Technical [fading up]: We know for certain, for instance, that for some reason, for some time in the beginning, there were hot lumps. Cold and lonely, they whirled noiselessly through the black holes of space. Those insignificant lumps came together to form the first union—our Sun, the heating system. And about this glowing gasbag rotated the Earth, a cat’s-eye among aggies, blinking in astonishment acros the Face of Time…
The King James Version on the only creation
https://www.bible.com/bible/1/gen.1.kjv
I guess I need to repeat this statement. “There is no evidence for any particular god, or a god that is sentient or personal, outside of the mind of the believer or the books and writings of other believers.” Every claim made in this thread supports the above statement.
Everything you know, or think you know, about your gods, originated from humans. You heard it from your parents, or your preacher who heard it from other people, or read it in a book written by people. Everything. Every. Word.
The only laws of god that did not spring from the mind of people are the laws of nature. These laws can be observed and tested, but they can’t be invented. They may be perceived by you directly without being filtered through other humans, or they may be perceived by instruments that have no bias and work the same for you as they do for priests.
If you choose to ignore the direct laws of nature in favor of a man-produced dogma (that often contradicts the direct laws of nature), then you put your faith in man, not in god. Every time you point to a youtube video of a preacher, or a bible passage, you are pointing to a human interpreting the words of another human, interpreting the words of another human, etc., with all the inherent unreliability of humans being magnified by multiplication. Such sources may be occasionally right, but that does not excuse all the times they are wrong nor does that endorse their methodology. As the saying goes, even a broken clock is right twice a day.
If you want to be closer to god, you have to take humans out of the equation. Your goal should be to minimize the influence of human interpretation to the greatest extent possible. Instead, when you quote your preacher or your scripture, you are doing the exact opposite. You are elevating man above god.
Think about THAT for five minutes.
Who do you think created nature ? God is the creator of all . The Bible doesnt need interpretation . Preachers of Gods word only reinforce and teach Gods word . The youtube video posted an interesting question to non beleivers . That by no means elevates man above God .Do you believe that we just live and then die ? Or do you believe in the possibility of everlasting life ? Its an easy question to answer.
I do not agree that quoting the bible or man of God elevates them above God .
On a side note .. I enjoy chatting about subjects other than football and it seems many of you do as well . I have the upmost respect for all of you and whatever opinion you hold . We dont have to agree on everything
Thanks for the give and take, Earl. I’m glad your skin is thick enough to have this conversation. I agree that the topic is interesting.
Who created nature? Why not ask who created a personal, sentient god. Yahweh is far more complex and difficult to explain than anything else in the universe.
I disagree that the Bible doesn’t need interpretation. Your scriptures are no more valid than any other. They were all written by people. Sure, the words claim divine revelation, but anybody can make that claim. In and of itself, such a claim proves nothing.
Do I believe in the possibility of everlasting life? No. If you have a continuance of some form after death that would not be everlasting life, but everlasting death. 🙂
Yes, we live, and then we die. I think it very unlikely that anything that resembles “self” continues past death. Certainly there is no objective evidence about it, and neither you nor any preacher knows any more about it than I do.
I agree with you that quoting the Bible or a preacher does not elevate them above God. But presuming those sources are divine does exactly that. Quoting Shakespeare does not elevate him above God, but suggesting that his writing represents the inerrant truth of the cosmos and eternity and that the ghost of Hamlet’s father really walked the parapets proclaiming the one true path, well yes that would elevate him above God.
I’m not afraid to go direct to the source without the aid of a middleman. And for me, going direct to the source doesn’t mean groveling in the dark or sacrificing a lamb. It means using the tools god gave me: my sensory organs combined with the power of reason.
What the heck did I start here?!
This thread started with a statement about people who get angry and defensive when criticized for something, that they themselves have to realize was wrong, and then try to rationalize said behavior by hiding behind their proclaimed faith. Not a debate about the validity of religion, but a statement that SOME people who are self proclaimed as religious are seemingly prone to using whatever is at their disposal to defend their bad intentions, including their faith.
I tried to reassure Earl, in a small way, that he was not entirely alone in the room as a means of establishing commonality so that he would feel included and remain comfortable within the group, not to start yet another debate. Now I wish I had just kept my thought to myself or asked him for an email address.
I will ask that NO ONE respond to this. I certainly cannot make you do, or not do, anything, but I’m afraid the thread is getting out of hand and I really don’t want this to turn into something that divides this group. I really enjoy coming here and chatting and I consider you all to be my friends; maybe cyber friends but friends nonetheless.
You see, Islamic Extremists do not hold an exclusive market on explosive outrage when they feel as though their faith has been besmirched. It’s just that we, as Americans, can see their irrational reaction while ignoring our own. To us it seems perfectly reasonable to react in such a way because the subject at hand is so near and dear to our hearts that it’s not just something we believe, we feel it tangibly.
I know Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, Atheists, Agnostics, Gnostics (truly, believe that or not) and even a Hindu. These are all good people who live principled lives and if there is a Heaven, and they die tomorrow, I’m fairly certain they’re getting in.
I’ll write it again; this was never intended to be about the validity, or lack thereof, of religion. It was a statement that when I see someone like Mr. Sanders using his faith in such a way, I understand why someone would be turned off by religious people and that person might eschew religion. Mr. Sanders makes me angry when he does so, but he is not the only public figure to wield his faith as a sword instead of holding it close like you might a shield. The larger point that I was really trying to make is that most religious people are not at all like that. Most of us are not self righteous, judgmental assholes who will tell you that you will burn for not believing in God or for belonging to the wrong faith.
For example, I don’t think that Copa will go to Hell for his faith, or lack thereof. I think he’s going to Hell because he loves the Pirates more than the Steelers. That’s just wrong. I can’t say it any more plainly.
No worries, aben. I think this conversation is all positive and respectful. I’m not taking anything personally and I would hope that’s true for everyone.
But I resent your statement that I love the Pirates more than the Steelers. Stop bearing false witness on me, you heathen! The Pirates were my first love, but only by about a year. Like a good mistress, the Steelers elicit more passion.
I’m married to the Steelers and don’t ever cheat.
And who’s calling who a heathen? You’re the guy with the poor priorities.
Again….. a more interesting discussion lies in the question “Why does man create gods?” while enjoying a beer session.
Why does man create gods? Three words: tax free income. 🙂
Obama is going to kill that too