Politics and other crap, part 2

This entry was posted by on Monday, 1 August, 2016 at

It’s getting a little hard to load the comments from the original post, so I’m starting a new one.

225 Responses to “Politics and other crap, part 2”

  1. copanut copanut

    Have at it, nerds.

    If you’re looking for the original Crap thread, it’s here: http://steel-balls.org/2016/08/01/politics-and-other-crap/

  2. copanut copanut

    Here, I’ll get this party started. This dumb stump is the quintessential Trump supporter, Michael Cohen, getting bitchslapped by a girl. Consider it a microcosm of the upcoming debates.

    https://youtu.be/ufQuEI5Y22I?t=16

    • J A M E S H JAMESH

      And in his reality, that he thinks he bested her is so typical of the mindset. Delusional people are too delusional to realize how incorrect their perception is in the same way that stupid people are too stupid to realize the flawed logic of their arguments.

      • abennihana abennihana

        I concur, James. The only thing worse than a total idiot is a deluded one. As if denying reality will make it untrue.

      • Army01 Army01

        Says Who??

        • J A M E S H JAMESH

          Now that’s funny!

    • ChicoSteelersFan ChicoSteelersFan

      It is going to be fun watching the Trump campaign fall apart. During the primary season we heard about Trump not getting in trouble for any of his dipshit comments and beliefs and it was true he kept getting away with shit, now these fools think that’s still gonna continue during the real election?? Nope! This thang is gonna fall apart bad and I can’t wait to wAtch it.

      • Earl Earl

        Not only did it continue , he got elected . Crazy Right?

  3. copanut copanut

    The world’s saddest book signing party, or the world’s saddest saluki, you be the judge.

    • Earl Earl

      This is for you Copa . Ann Coulter Roast

      “Ann Coulter wants to help Trump make America great again. You can start by wearing a burka. You have a face that would make doves cry,” said roast veteran Jeff Ross, who was dressed in purple as Prince. “That voice, it’s like fingernails on a chalkboard in an inner-city school you wanna defund,” he said. “Ann’s against gay marriage. What’s your thinking on that? If I can’t get a husband they shouldn’t, either?”

      Saturday Night Live cast member Pete Davidson quipped, “If you are here, Ann, who is scaring the crows away from our crops?”

      Former NFL quarterback Peyton Manning had a joke about her appearance, too: “I just realized that I’m not the only athlete up here tonight. As you all know, earlier this year Ann Coulter won the Kentucky Derby.”

      There were also lines about Coulter’s political views. “Ann Coulter has written 11 books, 12 if you count Mein Kampf,” said comedian Nikki Glaser. “Ann, you’re awful. The only person you will ever make happy is the Mexican who digs your grave.”

      “She seems stiff and conservative, but Ann gets wild in the sheets. Just ask the Klan,” said Roast Master David Spade. “It looks like she’s having a good time. I haven’t seen her laugh this hard since Trayvon Martin got shot.”

      Folk singer Jewel won the crowd over with this: “As a feminist I can’t support everything that’s been said tonight,” she said, “but as someone who hates Ann Coulter, I’m delighted.”

      But British comedian Jimmy Carr really let Coulter have it. He called her “repugnant,” “hateful,” and “hatchet-faced.” “But it’s not too late to change that,” he said. “You could kill yourself.”

      • J A M E S H JAMESH

        Funny stuff! Was that a recent Comedy Central roast? I like Jewel’s take.

        • Earl Earl

          It was recent .. Rob Lowe

          • J A M E S H JAMESH

            It was filmed Saturday night but will air on Comedy Central next Monday, September 5th.

      • copanut copanut

        And I thought I was mean for comparing her to a sleek canine.

  4. Earl Earl

    Colin Who?

    • Earl Earl

      EAST RUTHERFORD, N.J. – Giants wide receiver Victor Cruz made it known Saturday night that he disagreed with Colin Kaepernick’s decision to sit during the national anthem.

      Cruz:

      “I think, personally, the flag is the flag. Regardless of how you feel about the things that are going on in America today and the things that are going on across the world with gun violence and things like that. You’ve got to respect the flag and stand up with your teammates. It’s bigger than just you, in my opinion. I think you go up there. You’re with your team, and you pledge your allegiance to the flag and the national anthem as a team, and then you go about your business, whatever your beliefs are. Colin is his own man. He decided to sit down and sit out and that’s his prerogative. But from a personal standpoint, I think you have to stand out there with your team and understand that this is a game and understand that what’s going on in the country.”

      • ChicoSteelersFan ChicoSteelersFan

        It’s a pretty weak way to protest IMO. Just look at what this country has made possible for him? His story could not happen in many other countries. I agree that there are serious issues going on for minorities and lots of people really, but sitting down for the anthem? LAZY.

        • ChicoSteelersFan ChicoSteelersFan

          By the way my 9ers friends call him Colin SackOrPick!! Lol

        • TomPaulBillyBob TomPaulBillyBob

          That was the exact response I had, Chico, that the very nation he is protesting is the only one that allows him to protest in the manner he did….you have to wonder if he’s intelligent enough to understand the irony….

    • copanut copanut

      Colin Cancer.

  5. Earl Earl

    #blacklivesmatter .. Do you care about black on black Murder? Bigger problem than the police for sure . Just ask D Wades cousin

    • J A M E S H JAMESH

      #

  6. Earl Earl

    What the fuck Obama ? Between all the Muslim Refuges , Illegal Mexicans and now turning all the inmates lose you are turning this country into a shit hole. I might have to take a seat during the National Anthem in protest of your stupidity

    • copanut copanut

      The United States Department of Homeland Security (DHS) estimates, “the number of illegal immigrants peaked around 12 million in 2007 and has gradually declined to closer to 11 million.”

      Read that again: peaked in 2007 and has gradually declined since. Now compare and contrast that with the insinuation in your comment.

      • Earl Earl

        Is he not allowing Syrian Refuges in by the Thousands ? Yes indeed. Do we still have 11 million illegals ( your count)? Yes indeed . Did he turn 111 convicted felons lose? Yes Indeed. I was merely stating the facts

        • copanut copanut

          Well, I was specifically addressing your comment on illegals, not refugees or inmates. It’s not easy to chase all horror theories at the same time.

          The point of addressing that is that you specifically blamed Obama (I believe you used the phrase fuck Obama), but in fact the illegal problem peaked prior to Obama taking office and has (very) gradually improved while Congress has gone out of its way to do nothing for the past 8 years.

          As for Syrian refugees, according to FactCheck.org, there have been a total of 2290 of them admitted to the US since the civil war began in 2011 though to the end of last year. There has been talk of substantially increasing the quantity the US might accept in the future, but that is a decision that will be made after the Obama administration, so is not relevant to the Obama administration or your need to fuck him.

          I don’t know anything about felons you are talking about, but I have little doubt it will turn out not to be as extraordinary an event as you are implying.

          [Edit: These 111 commuted sentences are for non-violent drug offenses where the sentences are deemed to have been excessive based on outdated laws. Sounds like a positive and tax saving step.]

      • Earl Earl

        And how do you accurately count or estimate folks that don’t want to be discovered ? By the number of welfare checks written? I dont know , just asking

        • Army01 Army01

          LOL

      • TomPaulBillyBob TomPaulBillyBob

        The job market is so bad that an illegal can’t even get a job–they all go back.

        If you feel like reading something with a little more depth than wiki…

        http://dailysignal.com/2015/12/27/you-only-think-you-know-how-many-illegal-immigrants-live-in-the-us/

  7. copanut copanut

    Twins separated at birth? This is the current CNN home page. Click picture for full view.

  8. Earl Earl

    “Homeland Security has made some gains in detaining criminal aliens but still released into the community nearly 20,000 immigrants last year who’d already been convicted of crimes — including hundreds charges with sexual assault, kidnapping or homicide — according to figures sent to Congress this week.
    Between them the aliens notched a total of 64,000 crimes, including 12,307 drunken driving convictions, 1,728 cases of assault, 216 kidnappings and more than 200 homicide or manslaughter convictions, U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) told the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform ahead of a hearing Thursday.
    “These are not just numbers. These are individuals in this country illegally who were arrested, prosecuted and convicted. But instead of removing these criminals, ICE put them back on American streets,” said Oversight Chairman Jason Chaffetz.”

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/apr/27/homland-security-releasaing-thousands-illegal-immi/

      • J A M E S H JAMESH

        Simpson, however, sees a different person in the president he called a “dear friend.”

        Reagan “knew that it was not right for people to be abused,” Simpson says. “Anybody who’s here illegally is going to be abused in some way, either financially [or] physically. They have no rights.”

        Peter Robinson, a former Reagan speechwriter, agrees. “It was in Ronald Reagan’s bones — it was part of his understanding of America — that the country was fundamentally open to those who wanted to join us here.”

        Reagan said as much himself in a televised debate with Democratic presidential nominee Walter Mondale in 1984.

        “I believe in the idea of amnesty for those who have put down roots and lived here, even though sometime back they may have entered illegally,” he said.

        • TomPaulBillyBob TomPaulBillyBob

          Here’s an interesting read, if you have the time to go through all of the replies

          http://immigration.procon.org/view.answers.php?questionID=000788

          • J A M E S H JAMESH

            Outstanding choice of reference, TP. Thanks for that.

          • J A M E S H JAMESH

            You must drive demographers nuts………. NPR author reading NASCAR fan!

            Do you ever feel all alone?

          • TomPaulBillyBob TomPaulBillyBob

            It’s an island James–but it’s all mine! I’ve mentioned before, I do have some liberal beliefs, such as gay marriage–I really don’t give a damn if some dude wants to marry another dude, a tree, a rock, a Camaro–it has no binding effect on me and if that’s what makes someone happy, knock yourself out

          • abennihana abennihana

            This is why I don’t fit in any party anymore. I’m not quite a Libertarian, but I am definitely in favor of keeping as many personal liberties as possible and am a social Liberal in almost every sense (guns being the notable exception). I am pro choice, but also pro death penalty.
            Fiscally though, I am a Conservative and believe that spending is completely out of fucking control.
            I just don’t buy the smoke screen that the GOP would have us believe that the $3 Billion+ we spend on welfare programs is what’s really hurting us when we give corporations over $100 Billion in subsidy and tax breaks each year and issue no bid contracts to military contractors who can’t even competently execute what they contracted to do in the first place.
            If these were someone’s personal finances, 1) we’d call them an idiot who has nothing to show for their spending and 2) they would be more concerned with the fact that they were getting nothing for that $100 than the $3 they wasted on a hand out to a homeless guy.
            That’s what it amounts to.
            Most people do not make educated decisions and have no interest in gaining an overview though.

          • ChicoSteelersFan ChicoSteelersFan

            Well said and that’s my big thing too, all this hate, blame, and worry about welfare…lol it’s a drop in the bucket compared to corporate welfare and especially the BLOATED military spending!

  9. Earl Earl

    Things that make you go hmm

  10. copanut copanut

    Is this a celestial hula dancer headed to Hawaii?

  11. TomPaulBillyBob TomPaulBillyBob

    You gotta love ‘ol Torts

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/sep/6/john-tortorella-id-bench-a-colin-kaepernick-copyca/

  12. Earl Earl

    Things I trust more than Crooked/Corrupt/Clueless Hillary

    • Army01 Army01

      Love it!

    • ChicoSteelersFan ChicoSteelersFan

      And just think trump is worse than Hillary. The man can’t go 5 min without lying. It amazes me that people see hillarys baggage but are oblivious to trumps, which is FAR FAR worse. Trump is like a sleazy used car salesman….at best!!!

  13. Army01 Army01

    Illary has Parkinsons……….really

    • J A M E S H JAMESH

      There is the possibility that you are correct. But upon what do you have as proof of your assertion?

      • J A M E S H JAMESH

        Why are conservatives so averse to providing factual evidence to support their bold assertions? We should fund a government program to study this.

        • Army01 Army01

          Yes…just like the fake left wing news CNN put out on Trump …..unsubstantiated escapades in Moscow. Why are liberals so aDverse to providing factual evidence to support their bold assertions?

          • J A M E S H J A M E S H

            I didn’t make a bold assertion; you did.

          • copanut copanut

            LOL, this comment is quite funny to read now in July 2017. Are you ready yet to accept that Team Trump, at the very least, actively sought to obtain campaign assistance from Moscow? I mean, given that Junior himself has released the email thread confirming it?

            And given that Junior, Kushner, and campaign manager Manafort all participated in the meeting with the Ruskies, in Trump Tower, is it possible for even the most devout Trump acolyte to think Donald Sr. was not aware of it? Indeed, it wouldn’t surprise me if we eventually learn that Dad was in the meeting.

            If one can still be a True Believer at this point, then Donald was absolutely correct in his statement that he could shoot someone on 5th Avenue and his fans would still back him.

            Had Obama done 5% of what Trump has done, in terms of endless daily lies, childish daily taunts on social media, overreaching directives, pissing on our allies and NATO alliance, and actively soliciting the Russians to undermine democracy, he would have been properly bum-rushed out of the White House, and I would have agreed with it.

  14. abennihana abennihana

    George H.W. Bush’s Support Of Clinton Comes At The Worst Possible Time For Trump
    http://www.politicususa.com/2016/09/20/george-h-w-bush-delivers-devastating-rebuke-trump-supporting-hillary-clinton.html

  15. abennihana abennihana

    What the fuck???
    I find Hillary Clinton borderline reprehensible, and that’s not a word I throw around lightly. But, there is no way in hell she is half the heaping, steaming pile of shit that David Duke is.
    “Presidential Race Tied, Cooper Up in NC”
    -By a 30/23 spread, Trump voters in North Carolina say they have a higher opinion of David Duke than they do of Hillary Clinton.
    http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2016/09/presidential-race-tied-cooper-up-in-nc.html

  16. abennihana abennihana

    You’ll see this all over in the next few weeks. I hope people take the message to mean what it does.
    No one is saying that social injustice does not exist. Just that violent demonstration and opportunistic robbing and burning of buildings does not further the stated goal of ending that injustice.

    • TomPaulBillyBob TomPaulBillyBob

      It’s so hard to discern anymore between attempting to achieve something great and attempting to gather attention. MLK didn’t live or act for the moment–he was set out to affect many lifetimes and generations well beyond his own (much like Medgar Evers) to stand for what he knew was right. Pioneer, hero, role model.

  17. ChicoSteelersFan ChicoSteelersFan

    https://www.facebook.com/OccupyDemocrats/videos/1247448632014855/

  18. copanut copanut

    Recall that a couple of months ago the Orange Anus objected to yesterday’s debate schedule because he was certain nobody would tune in and instead would watch Monday Night Football. I took the position that he was an idiot (easy call) because only football fans, and primarily only those in Louisiana and Georgia, two non-battleground states, would tune in to the football game.

    As usual I was right and the “GOP’s finest” was wrong. 8 million tuned in to Monday Night Football, and 84 million tuned in to the debate – the largest audience in history. Yes, the self-described genius was off by an order of magnitude.

    Luckily for Donald, his cultists have difficulty with numbers higher than their IQs, and have an attention span shorter than Donnie’s digits.

  19. abennihana abennihana

    You want to know how someone becomes a rabid Trump supporter? Read this.
    Try to do so without coming up with arguments about how she is an idiot. Try to read it while gaining an understanding for her point of view.
    After that you can call her nuts.
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/finally-someone-who-thinks-like-me/2016/10/01/c9b6f334-7f68-11e6-9070-5c4905bf40dc_story.html

  20. abennihana abennihana

    Here’s a nice visual explanation of what’s going on with the federal budget.

  21. kalel1199 kalel1199

    trump’s favorite sport is bowling….you get to stick your fingers in whatever hole you like

    • copanut copanut

      Let’s hope he doesn’t stick them in his asshole, or he’ll end up in Concussion Protocol.

      • J A M E S H JAMESH

        tee-hee

  22. J A M E S H JAMESH

    Defeat is not Disappearance.

    The forces of paranoia and disordered thinking which Donald Trump has ridden to political relevance will suffer a defeat in November. But defeat is not disappearance. Any sigh of relief when Hillary Clinton is sworn into office would be mistaken and premature…..

    http://www.miamiherald.com/opinion/opn-columns-blogs/leonard-pitts-jr/article107051217.html

    • kalel1199 kalel1199

      he was (essentially) in Pittsburgh yesterday saying about how politicians have hurt the steel industry in murica…..the PG JUST ran a report about him using Chinese steel just a few years ago….gasbag or assbag; take your pick

    • kalel1199 kalel1199

      I’ve told many folks that I’m not a Clinton supporter…just no way I’d ever take this guy….who knows…could be my daughter’s pussy he tries to grab next…asshole

    • Army01 Army01

      Yep……..got that one correct.

  23. abennihana abennihana

    People’s reactions to the election are as disappointing as the two worthless assholes we had to choose from.
    You would think that America was just given a terminal death prognosis and will any day be sinking into the ocean; or that our goal of taking back a mythical country that never existed was validated by an election where the “winner” lost the popular vote and that it gives us the right to be smug, defiant assholes in victory.
    For Christ’ sake, we’re Americans. We can take a punch and we can also be gracious after a win. Get over yourself, America.

    • copanut copanut

      The way a person reacts to success or failure tells us much about the essential character of that person. As for me, I accept the results and move on. If others choose to gloat or to whine, this is a learning moment about their character.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VrKEVZcSxNM

      • tobiathan tobiathan

        So the last word is “since that guy won any celebration of the fact just means that he really is evil after all”?

        The Left always could dish it out and never have been able to either admit defeat or take the same kind of vitriol they’ve dealt in spades

        Thank you, copanut, for keeping our meat and our potatoes separate! I really, genuinely appreciate this.

        Game’s on…

        • abennihana abennihana

          I’m not sure why you drew that conclusion from what he wrote. We were talking about the gloating assholes and the whining crybabies who are doing nothing constructive about the thing they’re bitching about.
          The only thing you got out of that was “…any celebration of the fact just means that he really is evil after all”?
          And you call the Dems overly sensitive folks who can’t take it. OK.

          • copanut copanut

            I guess I’m well past the point of trying to understand why people do what they do and say what they say, especially when it comes to politics. There is an irrationality about it and investigating it too closely is on a par with investigating the Medusa.

            I’ll stick with my opinion that the way someone acts in victory or defeat reveals a great deal about that person, good or bad. It’s not about who is right and who is wrong or who wins and who loses, but rather who is cool and who is a douche. Are you a Chuck Noll or a John Harbaugh?

            I know which way I’d rather be in life whether I win or lose any given battle.

          • Army01 Army01

            Hillary = Harbaugh

  24. abennihana abennihana

    Alright, I was going to save this until January. But, the news that Heyward’s season is over has sealed it for me. The 2016 Season is Cursed.
    And just because it will stick in the craw of a few, let me point a few facts out.
    In October, 2008, Dan Rooney gave Barack Obama a Steelers jersey with his name on it.
    I wasn’t a fan at the time but, in February, 2009 Pittsburgh celebrated Super Bowl victory number six.

    On October 10, 2016 some asshole thought it would be a good idea to let Donald Trump twirl a Terrible Towel during his last visit to Western PA. If I ever find out who it was, said asshole may get a punch in the face. This is a curse akin to Fallon not letting go of the Madden Curse questions when Troy was on his show in 2009.

    Since October 10:
    The Steelers have lost 4 straight after starting 4-1 & having outscored the opposition 139-93. Since the Trump Twirl they have been outscored 113-78, including back to back to back losses to New England, Baltimore and Dallas (speaking of insufferable, gloating asshole fan bases).
    Ben Roethlisberger has incurred a freak knee injury in the first half the next week and has had games with passer ratings of 57, 67 and finally last week, 125. All losses.
    Cam Heyward, tore his pec ending his season and removing what little respectability the defense may have had up front. It’s not as if Tuitt can do it alone.
    Sammie Coates, who was averaging 84 yards per game, has 1 reception for 4 yards over 4 games. His last game before was a 6 reception, 139 yard, 2 TD game.
    DeAngelo Williams’ injured his knee seriously enough to require surgery.
    There is now a Twitter hashtag for #TrumpCurse.

    So, I’ll pose this question, who was the asshole who thought it was a good idea to let Trump touch a Terrible Towel?

    • copanut copanut

      In response, I feel it necessary to point out that Trump and Brady have been licking each other’s dicks and yet the Patriots are on their customer roll to glory.

    • Army01 Army01

      Me…….it takes 4 games for his greatness to kick in

  25. Earl Earl

    My God Steeler fans are superstitious

  26. Earl Earl

    Trump Win # 1 : Ford Executive Chairman Bill Ford told president-elect Donald Trump on Thursday the automaker no longer plans to move production of its Lincoln MKC from Louisville to Mexico.

    • J A M E S H JAMESH

      And thus begins the journey for those murderers and rapists to re-think from whom they should purchase their oil-field equipment, weapons, medical technology, and agricultural products. How does one (Juan) spell China?

      Of all the cars assembled in Mexico, over 40% of the cost of parts content is purchased from manufacturers in the United States. These Mexican-assembled vehicles aren’t sold just in the United States. The South American market, for many different reasons, will absorb far more vehicles assembled in Mexico as opposed to Louisville, thus increasing the need for parts manufactured in the United States.

      Funny how international trade works.

      • Earl Earl

        I figured one of you libs would put a negative spin on keeping the production here …. sour grapes

        • J A M E S H J A M E S H

          If by “sour grapes” you mean “education” then you are correct.

          • Earl Earl

            You know who makes the parts in the US ? The Koreans . There is no benefit to the AMERICAN people to put a Ford plant in Mexico. Hell all the Mexicans are here already . Put the plant in Texas

          • J A M E S H J A M E S H

            The CATO Institute. Founded and funded by Charles Koch of the infamous Koch Brothers. No bias there.

            FDR was elected 4 times! The people must have really felt harmed.

          • Army01 Army01

            Re: FDR…..and his immigration policy was largely part of why “the people” must have elected him 4 times!

          • abennihana abennihana

            RE: FDR… given that immigration declined sharply in 1930 and has progressively declined every year since, you can’t possibly believe that to be true.
            It’s demonstrably false. Immigration (legal or otherwise) hasn’t affected an election since the 1920s.
            The greatest influx of immigration into the US? the late 1800s. The people who came to this country during that period gave birth to “The Greatest Generation”.
            I’m not one who believes that immigration (legal or otherwise) is one of our biggest worries. So, I won’t take a stance on the current policies one way or the other. I just don’t see any point in painting the issue as one that has been significant for almost a century when it comes to elections. If you believe that, you’re swallowing one of the pills the politicians on both sides want to use to distract you from their real agendas.
            http://ocp.hul.harvard.edu/immigration/timeline.html

            And yes, the Cato Institute is incredibly biased. It would be like James posting something from Huffington Post.

      • Army01 Army01

        100% > 40%

  27. Army01 Army01

    Trump won……………get over it.

    • abennihana abennihana

      Wait, Army. You’re not trying to imply that everyone accepted the result of the last two elections and just made the best of the situation, despite their concerns, are you? I would certainly hope not. There has been plenty of bitching, griping and flat out whining (even Glenn Beck’s crying) done by both sides regarding election outcome the last few cycles.
      I’m fine with anyone who is okay with this and wants to hope for the best. But, let’s not ignore the precedent. I know plenty of people who thought that armed revolt was a good idea for the previous eight years.

      • Army01 Army01

        Of course not everyone………appears like Chicago had a difficult time dealing with it.

  28. abennihana abennihana

    Test

    • copanut copanut

      You pass.

  29. Earl Earl

    Serious Question for those who lean to the left . Is there anything that President Trump could do other than resign that you would be happy about? I really don’t understand why the left are so damn upset. Mad because you lost perhaps? Look at the moves he’s made and tell me how its not in the best interest of the American people . Please educate me . Its not a Muslim ban so save that one.

    Here is what I think . I think even the left will start to like the guy if they give him a chance . Like Michael Jackson music .. when your alone you know you like it. You just cant say it out loud.

    • abennihana abennihana

      Well, I’m not going to give you an answer you’ll be satisfied with, but…..
      Let’s start with perspective, because that’s what it really comes down to. What you may see as acceptable is not by a majority of people, as demonstrably evidenced by Trump’s 38% approval rating and 56% disapproval rating.

      Which brings me to my next point, the question of conservative vs liberal has been drug to the far side of the political spectrum by a ton of people on both sides of this argument. I am mistaken for conservative or liberal every day and nothing in between. We’ve gone too far in the way that we classify one another.

      It seems as Americans right now if one takes exception with a single political belief or conclusion that someone has reached, said person immediately assigns the diametrically opposed political affiliation to the first person.

      I think we need to start by giving each other more of a chance and actually listening to one another.

      The Narcissist in Chief can worry about himself. Besides, he doesn’t really care what we think anyway.

      • Earl Earl

        I’m not sure you really answered the question. Those polls are so horribly skewed its laughable. Those are the same pollsters that thought Clinton was going to win 🙂
        I would say 90% of those who disapprove cant even tell you why. The liberal media makes more shit up than Trump ever did or will. Its really become a joke to watch the so called “news” .
        Your answer may have proved my point that people cant get past their dislike of Trump to approve of anything he does. I guess that’s okay if that’s where you stand

        • abennihana abennihana

          Wrong. You just proved mine. You don’t like what I have to say and so you’re telling me that my opinion is based on non truths and therefore you won’t listen to it or even consider it.

          THAT! The refusing to listen is what’s wrong. But, if you’re not going to consider it, you won’t be able to see my point of view. And, “I guess that’s okay if that’s where you stand.”

          I have never read a more condescending load of bullshit in my life.

          • Earl Earl

            Wrong!
            You mad Bro? I had no problem with what you said but you didn’t answer the question . You quoted some approval poll that doesn’t mean dick to anyone. 50 plus million people voted for him so put that in your pipe and smoke it. 304- 227 . The I’s have it and you don’t like it . The tribe has spoken.

            I’m willing to listen . That’s why I asked the question.

            I’m the condescending one ? You need to look in the mirror and see what’s staring back at you.

            Earl is not trying to change anyone’s mind here. Trust me, he knows better than that.

          • abennihana abennihana

            Here’s some more fake facts, Earl. 26% of eligible voters voted 45 in.
            Let’s do the math 26% is less than 38%, right? Yes.
            Therefore, a 38% approval rating is not only a rational expectation, it’s likely. Facts bear out the situation.

            Look, you asked for an honest answer and you got one. You didn’t agree and so you condescended. If you wanted me to tell you what you wanted to hear, you should have posed the question that way.

            I didn’t respond to you yesterday because I wouldn’t have been able to resist the urge to tell you to go fuck yourself.

            Intolerant, self righteous people like YOU are the problem and you exist on both sides. Maybe it isn’t intentional, but you’re every bit as bad as the people you despise on the far left.

            Let me point something out that you may have considered before your latest rant aimed at me (I have seen others that were similar though). Questioning someone’s intelligence and integrity will NEVER persuade to look at things from your point of view.

            Endeavor to be more charitable and understanding of your neighbors. Try to understand their point of view. If you cannot do that. no one is ever going to take your perspective seriously.
            Best of luck to you in that.

    • copanut copanut

      I’ll interpret “left” as meaning “dislikes Trump”.

      [Is there anything that President Trump could do other than resign that you would be happy about?]

      Honestly, no. It’s too late. Not because his redemption is not theoretically possible, just that after a lifetime of being a dick the probability of redemption is so low that there is no practical reason to expect it to happen.

      [I really don’t understand why the [people who dislike Trump] are so damn upset.]

      If his name were Obama rather than Trump, you would be utterly horrified at everything he has said and done. You would be horrified at his campaign and administration ties to Putin and Russia. You would be horrified at his personal attacks on Federal judges. You would be horrified at his cavalier use of executive actions that violate the Constitution. You would be horrified at his commitment to repeal a Republican-invented health insurance patch without having any proposal in place for a viable alternative, thus causing 20 million people to panic about the future. You would be horrified at his insistence on continuing to communicate and govern via childish tweets. You would be horrified at the expense of his extravagant lifestyle being funded by taxpayers. You would be horrified that he is already prepared to abandon his central campaign pledge to have Mexico pay for a wall by saying the taxpayers will fund it “up front”. You would be horrified at his ignorance on the issue of the “single state solution”. You would be horrified at his temerity to appoint an incompetent moron in charge of education. You would be horrified at his denial of science when he has no understanding of science. You would be horrified at his juvenile attacks on the media, and his reliance on bogus alternative media. You would be horrified that he put forth spokespersons who continually lie while expressing contempt for the norms of checks and balances in our democracy. You would be horrified that rather than speak to all the American people he thinks he is still in campaign mode, and holds campaign-style rallies where he can surround himself with his adoring audience. You would be horrified at his cavalier attitude about nuclear weapons, and about his derogatory remarks about our allies.

      It’s actually hard to come up with a single thing he has said or done that isn’t horrifying. Even more horrifying is that his fans can’t see it.

      [Mad because you lost perhaps?]

      We all lost. Personally I am mostly a-political and don’t care much about politics. I do care about the stability of the American enterprise, and I see it in serious danger right now.

      [Look at the moves he’s made and tell me how its not in the best interest of the American people . Please educate me .]

      Done. Take off your orange-colored glasses and try to be objective.

      [I think even [those who don’t like Trump] will start to like the guy if they give him a chance.]

      He had a chance. Following his almost gracious victory speech, he had the chance to leave the divisive, bullying nature behind and show that he understood the gravity of his new job, and understood that he represents all of the people and not just those who say nice things about him. His chance is over. It won’t end well.

      [Like Michael Jackson music .. when your alone you know you like it. You just cant say it out loud.]

      His music was never a problem. It was his evident need to sleep with little boys that was the problem.

      As for Trump, I’d gladly sing “Beat It” on his way out of town.

      • Earl Earl

        Thanks for an honest answer . That’s all I was looking for .
        Hopefully the man will do something that impacts your life in a positive way

  30. MWalsh26 MWalsh26

    http://angryandbitterbits.blogspot.com/2017/02/will-usa-go-by-way-of-usfl.html

    This falls under the lifetime of being a dick…This is not political, if it were Romney I would not be upset. It’s just the Orange Man I despise…

    • copanut copanut

      Yep, I have to agree. I would have no problem with Romney at all. I don’t agree with him on everything, but he’s a reasonable person and respectful of America, its people, its traditions, and its institutions. He would not be an international embarrassment or an existential threat to humanity. Does this make me a leftist?

  31. Earl Earl

    Lets just see what happens. Perhaps you will all be right.

  32. Earl Earl

    Or perhaps Trump Haters will be dead wrong ? I doubt many would admit it though.

    • copanut copanut

      Earl, I promise that if Trump stops being a douchebag and starts acting like a president and statesman, I will be the first to acknowledge it.

      He can start by deleting his Twitter account, and ceasing his attack on the Press no matter how much it hurts. If he wants to be a healer rather than a divider, he can start by reaching out to the majority of the electorate who did not vote for him instead of whining and making up nonsense about how he got cheated out of votes.

  33. MWalsh26 MWalsh26

    He’s a Con Man…#TheConIsOn

  34. Earl Earl

    Aben – I don’t even know what the fuck you are talking about. I asked a simple question and you went on the attack rather than answer it. Copa answered the question and I said thank you .

    I really don’t mind the name calling. It amuses me . Keep up the good work

    • abennihana abennihana

      Not at all, Earl. You asked an honest question, you got an honest response. You didn’t like it, so rather than trying to understand it you condescended.
      That, I attacked. And, if you didn’t expect that response, you’re a fool.

      • Earl Earl

        I really have no clue what you think I didn’t like. You never answered the question. Circle talk

        Now I’m a fool ? Wow

        • abennihana abennihana

          If you didn’t expect that response, yes.

          • Earl Earl

            I had no problem with what you said Ben . You may have overreacted just a tiny bit .

      • Earl Earl

        I would say most don’t follow you on Twitter so I’ll let them know that you are clearly Anti-Trump . No doubt whatsoever . It’s hard to tell where you fall on the political spectrum so I’ll just call you middle leaning a little towards the left.
        Do you agree with that? I don’t want to label you

        So .. One more time . Is there anything the POTUS could do other than resign that YOU . Ben Anderson would approve of? Lets keep it real simple .. Just answer it Yes or No

        • abennihana abennihana

          I am Anti-Trump, just as I am anti-oligarchy. I think you’d be surprised how conservative I am. You just don’t see it because you’ve bought into the myth that most Americans have.
          “If you don’t agree with me completely, you are definitely a member of the other side.”
          I used to be a Republican, but that was back when we had sane leaders in the party. What we have now is nuts.

          To answer your direct question, yes. In fact, he has. I like McMasters. He’s a straight shooter, who will piss some people off here and there, but will put country before EVERYTHING.
          I like Mattis for the same reasons.
          I also think that while it was ridiculed, Linda McMahon was an excellent choice for Sec SBA. She took a small business (less than $5M in rev) and made her whole family billionaires. Maybe she hasn’t run a government office, but she knows how to build a brand and business.

          Trump is still a piece of shit though, no better no worse than HRC. Most of my gripes with him have to do with arrogance and implementation of change without considering consequence. That and he’s a horrible human being. Of course, so are most politicians, so that’s not an huge detraction.

          Mike Pence, while a bit too conservative socially for my tastes, is fiscally sound and no one can argue that he is not a very good person.

          • Earl Earl

            You guys want to be entertained go back and start reading these posts from Sept forward . Its a good thing I’m not sensitive because I would be dishing out some fuck yinz for all the names I’ve been called.

            The common theme is that anyone that voted for Trump lacks the intelligence to function.
            Some of the posts are truly comical

          • copanut copanut

            I speak only for myself. I stand behind every statement I have ever made about Donald Trump, and everything I feared and predicted is coming to pass or on the pathway to coming to pass.

            I may have been aggressive and vocal in trying to get through to Trump enablers such as yourself, but that’s only because I could see where this ultimate con artist and his alt-right conspiracy freakshow were headed. Generally I don’t much care who people vote for, but this was a special case of once in a lifetime lunacy that was worthy of my best effort, feeble and impotent as it might have been in the end. At least I can sleep at night knowing I was not duped.

          • Army01 Army01

            “All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God”

  35. Earl Earl

    There you go still thinking people who voted for Trump are dumb . The arrogance continues

    Where is it going ? You need to stop watching Bill Mahar

    • copanut copanut

      First of all, I didn’t call you dumb. I said I felt strongly about what an historical disaster a Trump presidency would be and so I was vocal in trying to get people not to vote for him. How is that arrogant, any more than your intransigence is arrogance? Standing up for what we believe is not arrogance, it’s duty.

      However now that you’ve brought it up, do I think voting for Trump was dumb? Abso-fucking-lutely. But you know Earl, we’re all dumb about one thing or another. I’m dumb about lots of things. This doesn’t happen to be one of them. Sorry if you don’t like my saying so. I’ll go to my grave having been right about this issue.

      I don’t care what Maher says, or whatever other strawman “leftie” you want to toss into the conversation. Makes no difference to me. I evaluate what I see and hear from politicians all by myself without any help from any TV talking head. In fact, the less I hear from TV talking heads the better. I have essentially tuned out of all media of any kind since the election.

      Bottom line, if you don’t like my conclusion that’s your right, but it’s not my problem. You asked the question, I answered. Simple as that.

      • Earl Earl

        I love that you stand up for what you believe Copa . I have no problem with it whatsoever . I just don’t happen to agree with you.

        Build that wall ! Build that Wall! Build that Wall!
        LOL

      • Army01 Army01

        Exactly what disaster do you foresee?

        • copanut copanut

          Army, with all due respect if after the past 18 months observing this man in action you fail to see what a disaster he is, then nothing I can type up in a football blog is going to make a difference. This is not a left vs right or Dem vs Rep thing. The man simply is the worst combination of incompetent and unhinged, being advised by vile people, in power at a time when there are only the thinnest threads of checks and balances in place to keep him from doing something really stupid. We’re on a knife’s edge here.

          Many people think Dubya was incompetent. Many people think Obama was incompetent. But neither man was unhinged, thin-skinned, or easily goaded into thoughtless reaction, and both had respect for the opposition and the basic infrastructure of our democracy. We are in a unique situation here and it makes me sad that every one of us does not recognize and appreciate the nature of that situation. We should all be on the same side on this.

          • Army01 Army01

            Exactly what disaster do you foresee?

          • copanut copanut

            I guess I never saw your followup, which was to repeat the same question.

            In the interim, history has answered for you. What disaster did I foresee? How about the tragic events of the past two weeks? Treason, collusion, incompetence, and coverup. Sharing coded secure information with the enemy. One party control dragging its feet to acknowledge the situation and defend democracy. Brainwashed supporters failing to even notice what is going on, or worse, noticing but not caring and pretending all the mounting evidence is just “Fake News”, an Orwellian term delivered by master propagandists. Up is down, black is white, and left is right. Madness becoming normalized.

            Other than that, it’s all cool.

    • abennihana abennihana

      You guys all do realize that Bill Maher is not a Liberal or Progressive, right? He’s another wingnut info-tainer whose job is to be as controversial as possible because it generates ratings. Nothing more, nothing less. The man constantly contradicts himself and agrees with guests that contradict his point of view. He’s every bit as disingenuous as Sean Hannity or any other info-tainer that people see as “the other side”.
      I doubt very much that most of those a-holes believe half the crap that spews out of their cake holes.

      I take no issue with Earl, defending himself because he perceives himself being called dumb for his political beliefs. I just can’t stand by when he’s making the assumption that most people here form their opinions because of anything that Bill Maher has to say. He’s an entertainer whose opinions are near absent of worth.
      The only thing he has right is that marijuana should be legal and taxed, rather than a black market item that people are going to buy and use anyway. Well, not me, but a lot of people.

      • copanut copanut

        Bill Maher? He’s a comedian producing opinions for laughs, not a social sciences expert nor a journalist making an objective report. His opinions are of exactly equal weight of any of the rest of us. Why would anyone think otherwise? He’s no different than, say, Ann Coulter or Rush Limbaugh, except that he admits he is in the entertainment business.

        Why would anyone form their opinions based on a professional entertainer? I guess if you would spend your presidential vote on a reality TV star, you must assume everyone else has the same low standard for their political analysis.

        • Earl Earl

          I figured you watched him since you often say many of the same things. Maybe he follows you ?

  36. abennihana abennihana

    Jesus Fucking Christ! The political process used to be something that while never sacred, was at least taken seriously. Now, the whole damn country is becoming as whacky as the year that California had that run off Gubernatorial election because Gray Davis was impeached. Anyone can run now. The whole damn thing is becoming a joke.

    Dipshit Kid Rock and Dumb Fuck Ted Nugent have been inspired by Donald Trump and are considering Senate runs.
    https://www.youtube.com/shared?ci=eNot7cOmTY4

    • Earl Earl

      I’m not calling anyone here a liberal or a leftist. One can read the posts and draw their own conclusions. Its’ not my narrative. I do find it troubling that those who claim to support tolerance participate in hate speech, name calling and downright nastiness. The hatred towards Conservatives and the current POTUS is borderline juvenile and mostly intolerant.
      Here are a few examples just from this site: Nuts, Douche, Irrational, Asshole, Fool, Dipshit, Dumb, Idiot, Delusional, Incorrect, Uneducated, Shallow, Cultist ………. And those are just the names I’ve been called.

      Don’t feel bad about yourself. You’ve been conditioned to demonize those who disagree with you. Maybe I do the same thing but I am willing to try and change.

      The good news is I still love you guys and I hope we can find common ground. We had to endure 8 years of Obama so you can suck it up for 4 years of Trump 🙂 
      Go Steelers and God Bless America!

      • abennihana abennihana

        I never claimed to be tolerant, patient, left aligned or even nice…… So, I really hope you aren’t directing that gripe at me. I don’t even think that the people who fail their drivers license exam should be allowed to reproduce, much less vote. I call it as I see it.

        Kid Rock and Nugent are two idiots who are even less prepared to be political leaders than Scott Baio was to speak at the RNC. The thing is, people like Baio are being cheered for their ridiculous performances at events like RNC and it’s inspiring people who have no business running for office to try, and given our political climate right now, they have a legitimate shot.

        FWIW, I agree with you. We should be able to find common ground as Americans and we should acknowledge that as Americans we can take a punch. Even if we don’t like what’s going on right now in the political arena, we know that this too shall pass.

        • Army01 Army01

          Are you the arbiter of who has “business” running for office?
          I am under ther impression that as long as one meets the basic requirements…then they can run for office….the people then decide. Of big interests…or money

          • abennihana abennihana

            I’m of the strong opinion that we need better leaders, Army. And, that this need transcends party line. These two dipshits running for any office is the equivalent of Gary Coleman running for Governor of California.

            I’m very, very tired of the circus.

      • Army01 Army01

        8 years

        • copanut copanut

          LOL, unlikely.

          You better behave or I’ll take your Steel Balls Trophy away.

    • Army01 Army01

      Benni….for your own sake…..please Jesus out of it! Your post is very insightful. This post answers many questions and impressions.

  37. abennihana abennihana

    I haven’t fact checked this yet, but according to a source very close to all of us, “at the CPAC conference someone handed out Russian flags that say Trump on them. And people started waving them.”
    It’s funny because our citizens have become such lemmings that it’s entirely plausible.

    • abennihana abennihana

      Bwaahahahahahahahaha! It’s true! Lemmings!
      http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/320997-cpac-attendees-seen-waiving-russian-flags

      • Army01 Army01

        Shame on the uniformed that do not recognize the Russian flag.

        BTW left winger passed them out. Great spoof. Well played. But don’t think that they were actually supporting Russia.

        • Earl Earl

          That’s just the left trying to create yet another false narrative to discredit the President regardless of the collateral damage. They should find the asshole(s) that did that and send them to Guantanamo Bay for some R & R .

          Why do they hate America Army? I just don’t get it.

          • abennihana abennihana

            I don’t think they discredited anyone but the event audience and yes, it was clearly the troll job of this century, so far. BTW, they know who it was. Both guys were asked to leave.

  38. Earl Earl

    Your thoughts about Trumps message to Congress
    1. Would you agree he toned it down and acted more Presidential?
    2. Would you agree he sounded more like a liberal than a conservative?
    3. Did you watch the speech with an open mind or sit on your hands too?

    • copanut copanut

      1. I saw a couple of excerpts that were not his usual complete assholery. I can’t draw conclusions about the speech as a whole.

      2. Life would be better if you would simply think in terms of “do I agree with that position or not” rather than whether he meets some definition of terms that have become nearly meaningless. Most of what is wrong with the politics of the country today boils down to people being manipulated to focus on incoherent labels, fiddling while Rome burns.

      This is why I have never been a member of a political party and always vote based on my agreement with a candidate’s positions and characteristics regardless of party. Call me crazy.

      3. I didn’t watch it. I was busy working.

      • Earl Earl

        For Someone so opinionated you sure are label averse .You hate the word liberal yet you are one . Strange

        Whats burning Copa ? Your 401 k ?

        • copanut copanut

          I rest my case.

  39. Earl Earl

    PS: Al Franken is a cock sucking asshole baby

    • J A M E S H J A M E S H

      Al Franken is a Harvard graduate, 65 years of age, and has been married to the same woman for 42 years.

      • Earl Earl

        Good for him . He’s still a cock sucking asshole

        • copanut copanut

          Maybe he should be QB for the Patriots.

        • J A M E S H J A M E S H

          Earl, obviously you know him more intimately than I.

          • Earl Earl

            Only problem is he wont swallow

        • abennihana abennihana

          Army, Harvard had nothing to do with making Ted Kaczynski who he is. His own mental illness did that for him all by itself. He’s a schizophrenic with sociopathic tendencies.
          They should have fed him to the sharks. People like that shouldn’t be let to live even in prison.

          • Earl Earl

            There are plenty of schizophrenics that don’t murder people. They may have woke the sleeping giant and fostered the idea that he was responsible for changing the world or stopping it.

            “The Industrial Revolution and its consequences,” Kaczynski’s manifesto begins, “have been a disaster for the human race.” They have led, it contends, to the growth of a technological system dependent on a social, economic, and political order that suppresses individual freedom and destroys nature. “The system does not and cannot exist to satisfy human needs. Instead, it is human behavior that has to be modified to fit the needs of the system.”

            By forcing people to conform to machines rather than vice versa, the manifesto states, technology creates a sick society hostile to human potential. Because technology demands constant change, it destroys local, human-scale communities. Because it requires a high degree of social and economic organization, it encourages the growth of crowded and unlivable cities and of mega-states indifferent to the needs of citizens.”

            Stephen Hawking’s is saying the same thing the right now . “Technology could destroy humanity”

            Something to think about

          • abennihana abennihana

            Earl, there are plenty of schizophrenics who are also genius level IQ individuals, just like Kaczynski, who are college educated by very fine institutions and never murder anyone.
            Education is not the culprit here and frankly the narrative that it is and is being pushed by right leaning media arms, is not only irresponsible it is damaging to society as a whole.
            Besides, you missed the important part of the statement. Kaczynski is also a sociopath. He doesn’t have any sense of right or wrong. That’s hardwired into his DNA and there is nothing anyone could ever have done about that, other than identify it early and euthanize him, which still isn’t legal in this country.

          • Army01 Army01

            Then A Harvard degree does not validate Al Franken either

          • abennihana abennihana

            It validates their graduates as smart enough to get in and graduate, which is very difficult.
            It does not however, make anyone a good person. Plenty of graduates of higher learning institutions are a-holes. That quality transcends education.

  40. J A M E S H J A M E S H

    From last Sunday’s letters to the editor in the Houston Chronicle. I found it to be elegantly eloquent.

    I want my sons to grow up to be honest, selfless and caring men………..

    As a Catholic dad of four boys ages 10 and under, I’m struggling to reconcile the snarky tweets and peevish quotes from President Trump with the core character traits – respecting others, telling the truth and taking personal responsibility – that I work extremely hard every day to instill in my sons. I am not talking about President Trump’s policies, appointments or authority; I’m referring instead to his personal conduct — the words he uses, his treatment of others, and the way he carries himself as somebody to whom kids will look up to and emulate.

    On a recent car ride back home from basketball practice, I asked my fourth-grade son what he thought about President Trump. His answer was revealing: “Dad, I think President Trump sometimes acts rude, doesn’t always tell the truth, and says too many mean things about other people.” When I followed up by asking him how he thought his classmates felt, he responded: “They think he’s great.”

    It’s exhausting having to parent against the leader of the free world who spouts untruths about even inconsequential things (who cares how many people attended his inauguration?), who has a penchant for not apologizing when he gets things wrong (how do I impart to my sons the importance of telling the truth or apologizing when they are in the wrong in light of “alternative facts”?), and who belittles and name-calls those who ask tough questions or disagree with his positions (this is, to borrow from President Trump’s own Supreme Court nominee, “demoralizing and disheartening”).

    It’s bad enough that presidential put-downs and incivility are happening at all, but it’s all the more disconcerting because nobody can escape President Trump’s disrespectful rhetoric. He insists on putting these statements front and center in the form of inflammatory tweets and statements aimed at maximum exposure and shock value. He wants his words to be seen and heard by everybody – including impressionable young children.

    It is as if much of what makes me cringe about bad reality television has now infiltrated the White House. I don’t want my sons to imitate the on-air conduct of most any reality television personality, and that now, sadly, extends to the person sitting in the Oval Office. I can keep my kids from watching reality TV, but I can’t hide the president from them – nor should I have to.

    So I focus on what I control. To that end, I have adopted the following approach.

    First, I do not shy away from talking with my sons about what President Trump is saying. I take it head-on. Most recently, we discussed why President Trump may be referring to “fake news” and calling the media “the enemy,” and I stressed the need for them to be willing to accept criticism from others and not claim untruths just because somebody disagrees with their position. I want them to engage in debates over ideas and not resort to petty (or untrue) counterattacks. Importantly, I want them to acknowledge when they are wrong.

    Second, I ask them to reflect on whether the president’s words and tone reflect our family’s core values. I want my sons to grow up to be honest, selfless and caring men. We have discussed reasons why President Trump may be using language like “so-called judge” or calling people “lightweights” — or why he would disparage other people like U.S. Senator John McCain or the Khan family. We’ve talked about why they think the president resorts to bullying put-downs or attacks, and whether that is a respectful way to either treat others or get a point across. I’ve used these examples to reinforce the idea that nobody is better than anybody else by virtue of gender, race, religion…. or job title.

    Third, I press them not to copy or adopt President Trump’s approach in the way they treat others. Just because an adult – including the president – makes mean, personal attacks doesn’t give them the green light to do so. We’ve talked about why it’s wrong and hurtful to engage in name-calling (for example, describing anybody as a “dog” or generalizing groups of people as “rapists”) or mocking people (for example, the disabled) for laughs or attention. And I have explained that it is unacceptable, whether in the locker room or elsewhere, for anybody to brag about inappropriate touching of others.

    It’s embarrassing that I have to use the president of the United States as the example of how not to behave. Whether or not he recognizes it (or cares about it), President Trump is a role model. He needs to start acting like one – a positive one – and that extends to the way he publicly treats others, what he says and how he says it. Parents like me expect it, and the children of this country deserve it.

    • Army01 Army01

      I agree with this Dad on how he is trying to raise his sons.

  41. copanut copanut

    I hope the people who have spent the past eight years crying about “Obamacare” finally now realize how feckless and absurd their chosen lawmakers really are, starting at the top. The battle against ACA was always a political sham from the party who originated the ACA idea, against their own idea merely because the opposition party embraced it (or capitulated to it, depending on point of view) and thus took ownership of it.

    Now after 8 years of fake news inspired whining and crying and wasting of taxpayer money on dozens of failed attempts to gut the law, the whiners have total and complete control of the government and can do whatever they want. And what do they produce? A cynical bill that “replaces” ACA with essentially a modified ACA, one that holds onto the core ideas of subsidized insurance and a penalty for not participating, while fixing nothing in the underlying broken insurance system. They have a chance for real reform and instead deliver cynicism. Congratulations.

    In the process this bill manages to provide benefits only for those who need it the least while reducing benefits for those who need it the most, while fixing absolutely nothing that causes runaway medical cost inflation. They also manage to punt the medicaid expansion issue to a future Congress, meaning it will never be repealed because the current Congress represents the last gasp of the current incarnation of “conservatism” – the opportunity will never be better than it is right now to kill this thing if these “conservatives” actually have the courage of their convictions. Instead, what you have is a mix of fake conservatives, loony alt-righters, simplistic libertarians, and a few genuine conservatives who, as a group, are probably more dysfunctional than the comparatively quaint left-right split of yesteryear.

    The whole thing is such a joke it’s hard to overstate it, with the funniest part being that those who enabled the joke seemingly don’t get the punchline.

    Seemingly nobody really cares about fixing the health insurance problem for real or else they simply don’t understand it. A proper fix would involve first detangling insurance from employers, which has the effect of breaking the free market because the consumers of the goods (employees) do not directly pay for the goods (medical services), instead having it paid through a chain of intermediaries (employers, insurance companies). These payments are taken from the employees, but only indirectly (as “benefits” which come at the cost of lower wages) so the sheep don’t realize just how badly they are being sheared and the people holding the clippers can inflate their prices with impunity.

    But politicians don’t care about this and nobody ever talks about it. The sheep don’t understand it – don’t realize they are paying $1500 per month because they never see that money and are too dumb to realize they are making $1500 less per month because the payroll is a fixed pool of funds – there are no free lunches. These sheep represent the majority of voters, and the politicians cater to them by talking about lazy people getting government handouts. Meanwhile, those of us who own our own businesses and work harder than anyone and pay for our own insurance subsidize those sheep, as their medical costs are paid through higher costs of goods and services that we buy from their companies.

    Yes, Mr. Trump, this is complicated. But it isn’t differential calculus either. It’s an entrenched mess that serves the corporate masters through decades long obfuscation, and the political class lacks the skill, the brains, the motivation, or all of the above to deal with the real problem because they don’t see it as personally beneficial to their political status when it is easier to toss grain to the sheep who provide them with their mutton.

    Obama was also a servant to this entrenched mess as his ACA solution also did nothing to fix the underlying dysfunction and instead provided a band-aid at a higher level of abstraction than the actual problem. In a way, that makes it worse, like putting sugar on a shit sandwich to make it slightly more palatable to the diner even while it remains diseased.

    And so on it goes. I’m looking forward to getting my “advanceable/ refundable” taxpayer funded subsidy thanks to the efforts of a Republican controlled government that officially pretends that it believes taxpayer funded subsidies are an intrinsic evil even while they produce budgets that do the exact opposite of what they claim (and as they always have going back at least to Reagan) by taxpayer subsidizing the military at ever higher record levels and refusing to reduce taxpayer subsidies on social security and medicare, which along with the military, account for 70% of expenditure, and providing massive tax cuts from the people who own 80% of the country and thus have 80% of the benefit of our way of life and governance.

    As it is utterly impossible to convert to a libertarian utopia free-for-all without dismantling the country, isn’t it time we just admit that the Unites States is a giant corporate welfare state regardless of which sham party is running it? If we can admit that, maybe we can finally structure it in some sensible way that allows the free market to actually operate without crushing people or stifling productivity. Nahhhhhh…

    • Earl Earl

      Wow – I am exhausted and impressed all at the same time after reading that.

      The system is broken . Not enough Doctors and drugs cost to much. All the working folks are fucked. All health insurance sucks right now. Higher costs with less benefits.

      Maybe Ted was right ……

      • copanut copanut

        “Maybe Ted was right ……”

        Hmmm, an interesting thought. I couldn’t really remember Ted’s position specifically so I thought I’d take a look:

        http://www.ontheissues.org/2016/Ted_Cruz_Health_Care.htm

        I agree with him on his opening sentence:

        “The Congressional exemption from ObamaCare, which is fundamentally wrong, and I’ll tell you this, if I’m elected president, I will veto any statute that exempts members of congress. The law should apply evenly to every American.”

        But it’s generally downhill from there. The vast bulk of what he had to say falls into the category of pablum – stuff that sounds good on the surface but has no depth. That makes it politically appealing without being a real solution.

        For example, he wants a free market and he doesn’t want the government making decisions for us. Who could disagree with that? What he doesn’t say is that an unrestricted free market would leave 10’s of millions without coverage (though still a burden on the rest of us), and rather than the government making decisions for us this results in faceless corporate overlords making decisions for us, which is not an improvement. At least we have *some* control over government via the vote. When was the last time you had a vote over the CEO of Blue Cross?

        I once had my family denied coverage because my daughter had a “pre-existing condition”. At 16, she had gotten a three month prescription for an acne medication. When it came time to renew our insurance plan, Blue Cross decided my perfectly healthy 17 year old had a pre-existing condition and so denied our entire family because a teenager had a few zits. I told them she no longer used the medication and I’d be happy to pay for it in full if she did need it. The answer was still no. This is what an unrestricted free market looks like, and those who enjoy group plans from their employers (subsidized by those of us who pay for their company’s goods and services) simply have no concept.

        Ted spent a lot of time displaying his political genitals and saying he would repeal “every word” of Obamacare, but I don’t see where he says jack shit about what would take its place other than “free market” and ability for insurers to operate across state lines. In other words, there is no meat behind his position and huge potential for abuse. A freely running train sounds like a great idea until you realize the railroad is being allowed to lay track through your house because, hey, free market rules.

        And if we’re being honest, Ted isn’t serious about a free market either. If free market is the be-all and end-all in Ted’s world, then he must also be in favor of abolishing Medicare, which is a far more costly component of the nation’s healthcare bill than ACA and is essentially a single-payer system. Is he prepared to take health care away from your grandmother? I’m thinking not. But without Medicare, gramma will not be able to get insurance in a free market both because it would be incredibly expensive and because no insurer would even offer it to her. So let’s not pretend there will ever be a true free market in healthcare.

        Ted’s only position on Medicare is to increase the eligibility age, not to abolish it – so he’s okay with a single payer system at some level. So I guess if Ted admits that some level of single payer is okay, the real question is what is the acceptable level?

        Currently, it covers only people 65 and over. Bernie Sanders would extend it to cover everyone, while Ted would shrink it to cover only those over, say 68.

        Reasonable people could compromise in the middle. How about this?

        – Obamacare is 100% abolished. (Makes GOP happy).
        – Medicare coverage is extended to those 50 and over and those who are denied private coverage. (Makes insurers and old people happy).
        – Medicaid expansion remains available for the indigent. (Makes poor people happy).
        – Taxation adjusted as appropriate to make this cost neutral. (Makes nobody happy but keeps the budget in balance).

        I would also add:

        – Employers may no longer pay for employee insurance through hidden payroll expenditure. They can still offer a group plan but the cost is directly deducted from the employee’s paycheck as a line item visible to the employee. This remains revenue neutral as the employee’s wage has a one time increase of the same amount to adjust for this change. (The long term impact of this change is that it adds market forces back into the equation and should have the result of cost containment. It would be even better to disallow such benefits entirely and make everyone purchase on the open market.)

        The above mix allows a free market to operate in a zone where it makes sense, but keeps the free market out of the zones where market forces simply can’t work properly.

        • Earl Earl

          LMAO – I was talking about the fucking Unabomber- Ted Kaczynski… not Ted Cruz

        • copanut copanut

          Great, I typed all that shyte for nothing. Ted Kaczynski had the ultimate solution to healthcare – sit in your own stink in a cabin until you get caught (no taxes!!) then go to prison for life (free medical care!!)

  42. abennihana abennihana

    Copa, I’d like to lodge a formal complaint about no longer being able to post pictures to this Other Crap section. Smiley faces and monkey shit emojis should also be allowed.

    • copanut copanut

      It was not by design. The plugin stopped working for some reason.

  43. copanut copanut

    I notice there has been a distinct decline of input lately from the Trump fans and enablers who put that incompetent treasonous jackass in office.

    Are they entranced by the daily circus performance of the most corrupt administration and most nepotistic, petty, vengeful, and deceitful POTUS in American history?

    Are they struggling with cognitive dissonance that results from putting Putin’s surrogate and his cronies into office, after they have spent years of mindless commie baiting and socialist taunting?

    Are they trying to get their heads around the fact that Trumpcare has all of the core characteristics of the hated Obamacare without the consolation prize of actually helping people?

    Or are they trying to figure out why grandma can’t get her Meals on Wheels because the program doesn’t “show results”, but yet a $1.5 billion taxpayer downpayment can be allocated to paying for the Big, Beautiful Wall that will be Paid by Mexico.

  44. Earl Earl

    There is only a small handful of us willing to put up with the abuse dished out by Trump haters. I mean you left wingers have waged war on Trump and cant wait to see him fail. Even if it means destroying the greatest country in the world. Left Wing Jihad

    Affordable Healthcare for everyone ? Hardly . The asshole picked the pockets of folks like me to pay for it . Higher premiums . Higher Deductibles . Less Care . A freaking Disaster . Who was helped by this?

    You are misinformed about Meals on Wheels . FAKE NEWS delivered by the New York Times . Meals and wheels is mostly funded by private donations – not the government . Its charity – gifts from those willing to help others. Not the job of Uncle Sam

    • copanut copanut

      Yeah, that’s about what I thought. There is no outrage sufficient to penetrate that Fantastic Beautiful Wall.

    • copanut copanut

      I’ve got a few minutes available so I thought I’d take a stab at your comment.

      “I mean you left wingers have waged war on Trump”

      I’ll ignore the usual gratuitous “left winger” crap. I’m not sure what war I’ve waged other than warning against this lunatic for a year and then sitting on the sidelines watching in horror as my worst expectations have come true. Part of me thought (hoped) he could not be as bad as what I predicted, but he’s met and exceeded those expectations on every level.

      I’ll tell you how left wing I am. If I were given a choice, I’d take four more years of George Dubya Bush before four more weeks of the Orange Julius Caesar. Dubya’s looking pretty good right now, relatively speaking, and he’s more conservative than Trump. So how does that figure? Trump is not even a conservative. He’s a Trumpative. So pretending this is about left vs right is completely bogus and you must surely understand that. Please tell me you are not so brainwashed by alternative facts that you actually think someone horrified by Trump must therefore be a leftist. This, while the Trump administration is in the pocket of the Russians. Oh, the irony.

      “and cant wait to see him fail”

      I will greatly enjoy the day that his ass is gone because I don’t enjoy seeing my country turned into an international joke. But wanting to see him gone is not the same as wanting to see him fail. He’s a failure right out of the gate and there is zero joy in seeing him continue to fail daily. In fact, I want to see him fail less, which is why I want him gone sooner.

      “Even if it means destroying the greatest country in the world.”

      Uh huh, sure. Any more strawmen you want to set up to knock down? I don’t know anyone who wants to see the country destroyed, not even the morons who voted for the most corrupt president in history despite abundant warning signs.

      “Affordable Healthcare for everyone ? Hardly .”

      Ah, another strawman. I never made that claim so it’s interesting that this would be part of your response to me. I’ve always had the position that ACA is a poor bandaid on a bad system, but an improvement over what preceded it. This GOP abortion just replaces the bandaid with a slightly different bandaid. That’s the joke of it. They could have fixed ACA and didn’t.

      “The asshole picked the pockets of folks like me to pay for it .”

      Oh, sure. There is a chance you were personally worse off financially under ACA, but the chance is small. Most people aren’t affected one way or the other because they get their insurance via employer group plans, where ACA is irrelevant. For those of us who have to purchase on the private market, insurance costs for comparable plans to pre-ACA are not really any different. The key word there is “comparable” because most old-style plans did not have the benefits of ACA plans. They were cheaper because they sucked and that’s assuming you could get them at all. Of course, if you have an employer group plan you probably don’t care about anyone else because you got yours so to hell with everyone else, right?

      Of course, your employer plan is subsidized by “folks like me” who pay for it by buying your company’s goods and services. When you buy a loaf of bread, a big part of the price is going toward paying for health insurance for the employees, or weren’t you aware of that? We subsidize one another. It’s the nature of insurance, for god’s sake.

      “Higher premiums .”

      Higher than equivalent group plans? Not at all.

      Higher than crappy pre-ACA private plans? Sure. But I’d rather pay $10 for a hamburger than $2 for a shitburger, wouldn’t you?

      “Higher Deductibles .”

      No. False. Where were these magical plans that existed pre-ACA that had low deductibles? What fantasy world is this?

      “Less Care .”

      Another bullshit talking point with no substance.

      “A freaking Disaster .”

      Well, here’s my response to this generic content-free attack. ACA is not perfect. There is a segment of people that get burned because they make too much for discounts and the full premiums are as unaffordable as employer-paid (customer paid) group plans. Also, ACA is a flop in some states, principally red states who have worked hard to make it fail. Here in California, it has worked very well, although again certainly not ideal, but pre-ACA was the real “freaking disaster”.

      “Who was helped by this?”

      Me, for one. I have a far better plan now, at roughly the same cost, with lower deductibles and out of pocket costs.

      I’ll tell you who else it helped. A good friend of mine, who is a rabid right winger in every way, has a grandson who had brain cancer. His parents had no health insurance. The dad was having trouble finding full time work. The mom had to take care of the kids and could only work part time. My friend was telling me how the surgeries and therapies were going to cost hundreds of thousands of dollars and so the boy was going to die. Their church was taking donations to help but not coming up with anywhere near enough.

      I asked why they didn’t have an Obamacare plan to cover the kid. He told me that Obamacare was a disaster that didn’t work, etc., etc., the usual right wing talking point ignorant bullshit. I said, man, it is designed especially for people in the position that your daughter and her husband are in. He said they went to the web site and decided they weren’t eligible. I said bullshit, they’re eligible. You go to the site and check for them. So he swallowed his right winger pride, went to the site, and found I was telling the truth. They signed up for a plan, and now a couple of years later the boy is alive to tell about it (although sadly he apparently has had a tumor return and is going in for more surgery soon).

      So, Earl, do you seriously think this helps nobody? Or is it only for lazy left wing bums who don’t work?

      “You are misinformed about Meals on Wheels . FAKE NEWS delivered by the New York Times .”

      Jesus.

      “Meals and wheels is mostly funded by private donations – not the government .”

      Meals on Wheels is not a federal program, however by far its biggest source of federal funding comes from the HHS program Older Americans Act Nutrition Program, which accounts for about 35% of their funding.

      [“We can’t spend money on programs just because they sound good. And Meals on Wheels sounds great.” Mick Mulvaney, White House budget director, at a press briefing, Washington, D.C. – Thursday, March 16, 2017]

      “Its charity – gifts from those willing to help others. Not the job of Uncle Sam”

      That sounds good and when I turn my brain off I can even agree with it in principle. But then I wake up and realize that most libertarians only want to be libertarian when it suits them.

      Generally speaking I’d say a country that would sit on its hands while old people starve or the children of mom and pop business owners can’t get their brain cancer treated, is not a country that can take the title of the greatest country in the world. Not while it is getting ready to add another $54 billion to the defense budget, 3x more than any other country, and about 10x more than Vlad Putin’s defense budget.

      Now, if you want to cut discretionary spending across the board, including the military and various forms of corporate welfare, I might change my tune.

      Edit:

      Speaking of Vlad Putin’s defense budget, it is about $65 billion. In other words, Trump’s proposed military budget increase is almost as much as Putin’s entire budget. And yet, we have Vlad taking over the Ukraine, putting ships off our coast, interfering with our elections, and controlling our administration like a puppeteer. Do you think it might be possible that we are not spending our money terribly efficiently in the face of this international menace?

      • Earl Earl

        Briefly

        Copa – you really should consider moving to another country, That’s something I could get behind 🙂

        The level of rant you are willing to go to is truly admirable or truly sad . I’m not sure which one. Why do you throw daggers and call names? Are you insecure? One too many towel snaps in the locker room perhaps? Did you get bullied in High School?

        You don’t dick about what I pay for health care. Premiums are higher , deductibles are higher and coverage is worse. Stick that in your strawman pipe and smoke it.

        I guess my higher costs are subsidizing healthcare for those who have to buy their own. IDK ?

        You are one high strung dude .

    • copanut copanut

      BTW Earl, I wanted you to know that there is something in this GOP health care bill that I actually like and think is an improvement on ACA. I mention this because you think I can’t find anything positive to say with regard to Trump (although he didn’t write the bill of course).

      I think basing federal contribution to insurance plans based on age rather than income is a significant improvement. The income-based approach is an accounting mess and encourages people to hide income to get a better deal. Age based is much simpler. Besides, there is already a program for income-related assistance, called Medicaid.

      So, I’d be in favor of this type of change and I think if done right it could fix the major problem of Obamacare, which is the fact that people on the higher end of the ACA income range get burned by ACA’s approach.

      The problem is that even though an age-based approach makes sense, the GOP of course fucked it up anyway because it is grossly inadequate compared to actual real-life insurance costs and would result in masses of older people falling out of insurance coverage. This is why the bill got blistered by the CBO.

      This is a relatively easy thing to fix, just by tweaking the contribution amounts, and maybe by keeping the existing rate cap structure. The problem of course is that the Freedom Caucus will go to the death to prevent that because it isn’t pure enough for them. On the other hand, if a bill is put together that the Freedom Caucus will actually support, it would be a complete disaster and would be the end of the GOP.

  45. J A M E S H J A M E S H

    As a fiscal conservative, I will always want us to reduce the costs we as a society collectively share. This is accomplished by putting our tax dollars to most efficient use. There is no hope for obtaining the goals of EVERY AMERICAN having access to care AND greatly reducing our collective cost as a society to provide such care………. until enough persons of influence decide that Healthcare in our country should not be a ‘For Profit’ industry. As a fiscal conservative, my belief in socialized universal health-care is not driven by a bleeding-heart liberal concern for my fellow human being………….. it is driven by the fact that it would cost us much less.

    • copanut copanut

      Word.

  46. copanut copanut

    You are entertaining, I’ll give you that.

    But no thanks, I think I’ll stay in my country and work to take it back. I haven’t given up hope that we can survive the fucktard-in-chief.

    “Why do you throw daggers and call names?”

    I might throw daggers but I don’t remember calling you a name. Where did I do that? I don’t really want to go back and read my own bullshit, so I’ll just take your word for it.

    In any case, you are quite adept at tossing around the insults yourself so I’m not going to feel too badly for you.

    “You don’t dick about what I pay for health care.”

    I never said I did. I worry about your reading comprehension.

    “Premiums are higher , deductibles are higher and coverage is worse.”

    Yeah, but see I never made a claim that ACA didn’t hurt anyone. Actually I’ve consistently said otherwise. You are the one making the claim – that ACA helped no one, and I refuted that. If you’ve been hurt by ACA, I’d be in favor of making changes to fix that.

    But, with all due respect, premiums and deductibles for ACA plans are no worse than premiums and deductibles for employer group plans. If you had a private plan before ACA it certainly had lower premiums than an ACA plan (although for most people that will be offset by discounts) but I find it hard to believe that the deductibles are actually worse. Previous private plans were fucking atrocious with so many gaps in coverage and easy outs for the insurance companies that they were a joke. Maybe you don’t care about that and just want the lowest possible premium, but Russian Roulette is not my idea of a good approach to health insurance.

    So you’re right, I don’t know the details of your before and after situation. Maybe you can post details of what your before and after plans were, including coverage details and pricing details, and maybe we can see if you are one of the unlucky ones who are worse off or if you are being a little, uh, inventive. Either way, your anecdote doesn’t change my point which can be summarized like this:

    Before ACA private health insurance was garbage; after ACA private health insurance is better in most way for most people, but problematic for some people. It can be made better and it should be made better, if we had politicians that would do their jobs instead of playing politics.

    I have no idea how you can argue with that. The facts are on my side.

    The GOP has not offered an improved alternative and despite having all power it can’t shoot straight. We’ve got F-Troop running the show.

    “I guess my higher costs are subsidizing healthcare for those who have to buy their own. IDK ?”

    This is so badly framed. I mean, I don’t doubt that you are one of the people who are paying more, but your sentence is framed wrong for two reasons.

    1. The “buy their own” comment is odd. People with ACA plans pay for them. They may get a tax credit to offset much of the cost, but they still pay something for the plan.

    2. Your premiums are not higher because of other people. Your premiums are higher because your insurance company needs to meet requirements it didn’t need to meet before. The principle factors are that they can’t deny you for a pre-existing condition or terminate your plan because you get sick, and they can’t cut you off with an expense cap. There are other factors, but these are the big ones that have driven up the price. It’s the same reason that employer group plans are so costly, even though the costs are being subsidized by their customers and so the employees get the plans for less money than actual cost just like people with ACA tax credits.

    “You are one high strung dude .”

    Whatever you say, man. Pass me the doobie. Here, have some Doritos.

    • J A M E S H J A M E S H

      mmmmmmmmmmm…… Doritos…………

    • abennihana abennihana

      “Your premiums are higher because your insurance company needs to meet requirements it didn’t need to meet before. The principle factors are that they can’t deny you for a pre-existing condition or terminate your plan because you get sick, and they can’t cut you off with an expense cap. There are other factors,”….. like the requirement to include Essential Health Benefits in every policy. A set of 10 categories of services health insurance plans must cover under the Affordable Care Act. These include doctors’ services, inpatient and outpatient hospital care, prescription drug coverage, pregnancy and childbirth, mental health services, and more.
      In other words, “major medical only” no longer counts as a health insurance policy.

      Just to be clear, ACA is flawed on a lot of levels. They need to fix it, not abandon it though. And chances are, that every single one of us know someone who has benefited by it’s existence. We all should be grateful, on some level, for that.

      In regard to Earl’s position that his expenses have gone up. I’m of the assumption that he’s speaking to employee contributions to company provided health insurance and coverages offered within those plans. I agree things have changed there and not for the better.

      Just speaking to my own situation, my contributions have gone up, my deductible has gone up and my “coverage”, that portion that my insurance will cover, has gone down. It used to be an 80/20 plan. It’s now 70/30. My deductible was $1,000, now it’s $2,500. So, Earl is not wrong. I’m just not sure that he and I agree on who the real culprits are here.

      IMO, ACA didn’t address the real issue. The cost of health care (medical providers and pharmaceuticals) and the profits involved by insuring the American citizen.

      This should not be an endeavor that is handled by publicly traded companies who have to justify earnings to investors on a quarterly basis. Private companies handling it should not be an issue. They should just be truly private, and run by health care professionals who understand that their mission is health care, not profitability.
      That said, I do not trust the government to administer a single payer plan that regulates costs outside Medicare/Medicaid reimbursements, which they already screw up royally. Let’s not give them more responsibility.

      What we need are laws that actually increase competition and yes, punish pharma companies for price gouging.

      • copanut copanut

        In all my life I don’t recall insurance plans ever getting better. Over time, they always get worse – more expensive, higher copays, higher deductibles, more limitations and exclusions. Sometimes these changes are somewhat masked from employees but they still happen. I don’t see what that could possibly have to do with ACA. If Earl is “paying more” and he’s on a group plan, it’s because the group plan cost has gone up, but that has nothing at all to do with ACA. ACA is just another group, “American Citizen”.

        If he’s on an employer plan than I will discount his opinion as irrelevant. Only if he was on a private plan (like me) would he have legitimate cause for complaint because there were very cheap plans before, albeit they were complete garbage.

        • abennihana abennihana

          I’m all my life, I don’t recall coverage percentages going down (ever before) while employee contributions and deductibles went up dramatically.
          This isn’t my opinion. It’s math.

          There is something to the perception that people are paying more and getting less. We have to acknowledge that.

          • copanut copanut

            I’m not sure what you mean from your wording. You can’t really glean anything from employee contributions because there are no rules for that and it can vary widely from employer to employer and even within one company from year to year as management or financials change. Actual cost of insurance is only one factor in determining employee contributions.

            What I can say is that in my previous life I was an exec for a software company and one of my tasks was researching and selecting health care plans from one year to the next. Each year prices went up and coverages got worse, and what we tried to do was find one where we could have the least impact on contributions which generally means pick a plan where the rates are not much different than for the previous year but accepting some other tradeoff such as higher copays, less attractive doctor lists, etc. The alternative is to keep to the existing plan and piss off the employees by hiking their contributions.

            Now, this was several years ago but as I look at current group plans frankly I don’t see that they are anywhere out of line with what I would expect from trends that have been ongoing for the past couple of decades or longer. They aren’t any more expensive or any worse in coverage than I would have predicted from the pre-ACA days.

            My interpretation, then, is that ACA is used as a scapegoat for people to bitch about things that would have happened anyway, and/or some employers may be using the excuse of ACA to jack their employee’s contributions rather than their own portion, and employees usually are too damned ignorant to know what’s going on so they happily blame ACA which has nothing to do with it.

            All the more reason to disentangle health insurance from employers. I have talked before about how that entanglement breaks the free enterprise system by distancing the consumer from the provider, and this is the kind of thing you get – inflation that hurts the consumer while those who are filling their pockets get to deflect blame elsewhere.

  47. copanut copanut

    Tweet from PA senator Bob Casey following the quick and humiliating death of Trumpcare:

    “@HouseGOP can we finally get serious, end this obsession with repeal, & work in a bipartisan way to keep what’s working and fix what isn’t?”

    Hey, now there’s a thought.

    • Earl Earl

      That was the plan all along . Mr Trump is moving on
      Build that wall

      • copanut copanut

        No problem as long as Mexico pays for it as promised, because I know you would agree taxpayers should not be subsidizing wall builders.

  48. Earl Earl

    Oh Copa – you really know how to sweep the leg

    Premiums went up because they had to cover more people. So because of the previously uninsured , I have to pay more … a lot more. That makes it their fault. You may not like the word but its a subsidy.

    Whats a tax credit?

    I like Doritos too . Bad for my health though

    • copanut copanut

      Hmmmmm… the GOP plan would offer tax credits to people based on age, while ACA offers them based on income. So when is a subsidy not a subsidy? When it is proposed by the GOP of course.

      Should we count up how many subsidies there are? Do you own a home and write off your mortgage interest? You are being subsidized.

      I’ve said before that I’ve spent a lifetime subsidizing the health insurance of the majority of people – everyone who gets health insurance through their employer. Every time I buy something, a huge chunk of the price goes to paying for health insurance for people other than me. And I don’t have to buy the product directly. The biggest chunk of my tax dollars for discretionary spending goes to the military. The hundreds of billions of dollars spent each year on defense contractors pays largely for the health benefits of their workers. My tax dollars also help to pay for the healthcare of the military, politicians and their massive staffs, government employees, and on and on.

      The vast majority of Americans do not pay for their own healthcare, at least not anywhere near paying in full, and instead have the cost subsidized by taxpayers and customers. Do you not understand that?

      “Premiums went up because they had to cover more people.”

      That’s only partly right. It’s not because of more people but about more sick people. As I said the majority of the increase comes from the benefits included – pre-ACA plans basically didn’t cover sick people.

      That’s why the GOP plan can’t work – because they want to keep the expensive components (pre-existing conditions, children to age 26, no lifetime caps, etc) without having a way to pay for it.

      A pro-repeal article in The Hill makes it clear:

      “In truth, ObamaCare discriminates against healthy people who have to buy their coverage in the individual market. ObamaCare forces them to pay the same price as the chronically ill, whose medical costs are ten times as high, on average.”

      That’s exactly right. The price increase is not about covering poor people or lazy bums, but about covering chronically ill people, victims of catastrophic accidents, etc., or people who are at higher risk of these issues by virtue of age.

      So it comes down to what kind of society you want. There are three choices that I see:

      1. People get hurt, sick, or old. They have coverage and get taken care of as needed hopefully before things get more severe, and hopefully get better.

      2. People get hurt, sick, or old. They have no coverage so don’t get any care, until they are in such bad shape that they end up in the emergency room for emergency treatment that doesn’t resolve any chronic problems. They may be back in the emergency room later.

      3. People get hurt, sick, or old. We tell them tough shit and let them die. Or, more likely, let them get driven to bankruptcy, take their family down with them, and then die.

      Where do you fall in this spectrum, Earl? I’d like to think nobody is in favor of option 3, but based on commentary I’m not really sure.

      Option 2 is what we had pre-ACA. Didn’t work so well, and not just for poor people. It was very high risk for people to start small businesses. It’s a system inherently rigged in favor of big employers, politicians, and government contractors, and against entrepreneurs.

      I’m a big fan of option 1 and don’t mind the notion that this vision is something that I’ll have to pay for, and that the cost should be spread out throughout my working lifetime to make it reasonably affordable. I’m okay with this because although I and my family are healthy now, I fully expect we will be sick later. Sooner or later we will all need expensive healthcare unless we die first. Let’s just face reality. This is the nature of insurance – to mitigate future risks by leveraging current resources.

      Single payer, or a hybrid of single payer and private insurance, is the way to go, along with removing insurance as an employment “benefit”. Every person, including your local congressman, should pay directly for his own insurance. With this kind of reform, I’m willing to bet that costs would be cut in half.

      But, this is not politically feasible because too many people with double digit IQs are allowed to vote, which means we end up electing criminals, sociopaths, and morons – so your next best bet is to tweak ACA to make it better.

      Bye.

      • Earl Earl

        I don’t believe that Health Insurance is a God Given right . Does that make me a dick? Maybe . Back in 1984 I knew that I had to get a quality education and a good job for health insurance. That’s what I did and have never been without. Lucky perhaps? Maybe . Has it gone up every year ? Yes indeed. There is a parallel between Obamacare and higher costs though . It cant be a coincidence

        Look I don’t think Trump is great . A country hasn’t had this many bad choices since the 30’s in Germany. We know how that turned out . Nazi’s , Commi’s , leftist assholes .. Sounds like us now without the extremism

        My problem with you is that you insult anyone that voted for Trump instead of Hillary ( perhaps the most crooked politician to ever live)and a cunt

        Joe Biden would have slaughtered Trump ..IMO . he didn’t run though.
        I think we are stuck with what have because there is a war going on in Washington that nobody wins.

        Good Talk

        • Earl Earl

          One more thing .. I do believe we should care for our sick and the old and the less fortunate. I just don’t like the way its being done .

          I don’t have an answer .

        • copanut copanut

          “Back in 1984 I knew that I had to get a quality education and a good job for health insurance.”

          Me too, except it would have been 1981. From then up until 2000 I had a job with one major employer or another and had employer-provided insurance and never thought much about it.

          But then something happened. I decided to go into business myself and be one of those, what do you call ’em, job creators. It was then that I began to realize how screwed up the system is because a country that purports to want to promote and support small businesses and entrepreneurship has a system that basically does the opposite. You don’t understand this because you’ve always had employer provided group insurance, the terms of which ensure that you cannot be declined for coverage or kicked out of coverage arbitrarily. Non-group plans, the kind a small business owner needs to purchase, had no such protections.

          What that means is if you start a business you are basically risking ruining your family in the event that a major illness or accident happens. That’s scary stuff.

          Six years later I sold that business and took an exec job at my old company where I was in a position to be on the other end of the table reviewing and selecting group insurance plans. Up until then I had no clue how much these things actually cost because as an employee I had never seen anything but the employee contribution part.

          So it’s not about a human right to health care. It’s about an American right to equal access. You shouldn’t have to get your insurance from an employer (in fact that should be forbidden because it is the very root of the problem). We should all pay based on the same group policy. You, as an employee, should not have an inside track denied to me, as an entrepreneur. It should be a level playing field, but right now it is badly distorted.

          I know we’ve had some fun going back and forth on this, but I really think you should try to understand exactly what is going on here because the notion that this is about making a smart choice in 1984 is not what this is about. In what kind of free enterprise capitalist society can we say that starting your own business is the choice made by lazy stupid deadbeats not smart enough to get a job with an employer that provides insurance? That’s just messed up and the opposite of what this country is built on.

          p.s. I agree with you that Biden would have slaughtered Trump – in fact I just made that comment to someone yesterday. I’m not a fan of Clinton although I don’t have the hatred for her that you have, but history will show Trump as the worst ever.

          • abennihana abennihana

            @Earl @Copa at least we can all agree that the Ravens suck and that Terrell Suggs looks like the donkey from Shrek.

          • copanut copanut

            Is it time to get back to football yet? I guess so. I’ve been disconnected. Time to get into draft mode.

        • copanut copanut

          Earl, one other point you might find interesting.

          You said “There is a parallel between Obamacare and higher costs though . It cant be a coincidence.”

          Please take a look at this chart:

          http://www.pwc.com/us/en/health-industries/health-research-institute/publications/assets/hri-projected-medical-cost-trend.png

          This chart shows the annual inflation of medical costs in the US. Costs continue to inflate above the general inflation rate, however unlike what your comment suggests, the rate of increase declined as Obamacare rolled out! The medical inflation rate in the couple of decades leading up to Obamacare was far worse than it is now. (That’s why this was such a big issue during Pappy’s presidency and helped propel Bill Clinton into office, after which Hillary failed to roll out a workable plan just as the GOP has now failed.)

          I’m not going to credit this downward shift to Obamacare, although that certainly may be the case or at least a major factor. Nor am I going to claim that a 6.5% annual increase is by any means “good” because it’s not, and there has been a wide variation in results as companies figure out how to adjust. But what I will say is the notion that Obamacare has driven inflation of medical costs to higher levels is just flat out false. It could be that your contributions have gone up at a faster pace than before but the underlying costs have not. Each company situation is different, as I said earlier, and so I can’t speak to your case, but there is no basis to jump to the conclusion that on average personal rates have gone up *because of* Obamacare. So far as I am aware, the data simply does not back that up.

          I will say again that the reason medical costs persist in inflating faster than everything else is because the free market is broken by having employers in the middle of it, making employees utterly clueless about the real world market and allowing all the middle men the freedom to continuously jack consumers. This ignorance on the part of employees also makes them easy pickings for proponents of “fake news” and political manipulation.

  49. copanut copanut

    Here is an excellent article by conservative intellectual and writer David Frum, a man with whom I have often disagreed over the years and who cannot be considered a leftist by any rational human.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/03/the-republican-waterloo/520833/

    He repeats many of the positions I have made in comments above. Here is an excerpt:

    Whatever else the 2016 election has done, it has emancipated Republicans from one of their own worst self-inflicted blind spots. Health care may not be a human right, but the lack of universal health coverage in a wealthy democracy is a severe, unjustifiable, and unnecessary human wrong. As Americans lift this worry from their fellow citizens, they’ll discover that they have addressed some other important problems too. They’ll find that they have removed one of the most important barriers to entrepreneurship, because people with bright ideas will fear less to quit the jobs through which they get their health care. They’ll find they have improved the troubled lives of the white working class succumbing at earlier ages from preventable deaths of despair. They’ll find that they have equalized the life chances of Americans of different races. They’ll find that they have discouraged workplace discrimination against women, older Americans, the disabled, and other employees with higher expected health-care costs. They’ll find that their people become less alienated from a country that has overcome at last one of the least attractive manifestations of American exceptionalism—and joined the rest of the civilized world in ameliorating and alleviating our common human vulnerability to illness and pain.

    I take no pride or pleasure in saying “I told you so.” We’ve all been wrong about enough things to teach us humility about our rare bursts of foresight. What I would urge is that those conservatives and Republicans who were wrong about the evolution of this debate please consider why they were wrong: Consider the destructive effect of ideological conformity, of ignorance of the experience of comparable countries, and of a conservative political culture that incentivizes intransigence, radicalism, and anger over prudence, moderation, and compassion.

    • J A M E S H J A M E S H

      Palabra.

    • abennihana abennihana

      He’s right. But, the best part of his argument is that there is no arrogance to his persuation. The vitriol and refusal to consider any POV that may conflict with his, that we usually see on this subject, is absent.

  50. Army01 Army01

    Interesting parallels: http://reason.com/archives/2017/04/05/roosevelts-war-against-the-pre

  51. kalel1199 kalel1199

    if this asshat followed through on some of his claims/promises, I’d be inclined to see what’s what, but about the only thing he’s shown since he took over is 1) he’s glad to spend tax payer money on stuff he/his family likes to do…like live in NY or visit FL every other weekend. 2)he’s happy to make money for himself by being the president.3)he’s a politician through and through…he’s great at flip flopping….haven’t figured out if he’s a stupid fucking politician or a lying fucking politician yet…

  52. copanut copanut

    Okay, so as of today the Assclown in Chief not only has fired the FBI director for not taking a loyalty pledge and for getting too close to the truth on RussiaGate, but it is now revealed that he gave highly classified ISIS intel to the Russians this week. In the Oval Office. While bragging about his “great intel”.

    Had Obama done these things, the Trump-enablers would be apoplectic. Hell, if Obama so much as cut a fart, or even breathed, the Trump-enablers were apoplectic. But only truly stupid people cannot recognize treason when they see it.

    Yet what we hear is more from the Neville Chamberlain school of irresponsibility. We now hear that “If the president leaks classified intel, it is no longer classified by definition, so it’s okay.” Richard Nixon was just as eloquent when he declared, “When the president does it, it’s not illegal.”

    At what point do the Trump-enablers step away from denial of reality and remember that we are Americans first and political ideologues second? At what point do enough Republicans grow a pair of nads and start working to get this psycho brainless fuckwit out of office? Do we all have to be dragged to ruination first?

    Of course, the Trumpster Fire can divert attention from his bad press instantly merely by ordering a military assault on North Korea, and lucky for him that the other global fuckwit, Kim Jung Un, is making that easy by rattling sabres and shooting off proto-ICBMs. Does anyone really think that Donald is not at least floating the idea in his orange cranium about an attack on DPRK, if not a pre-emptive nuclear strike? If so, you haven’t been paying attention, such as his campaign rhetoric about “Why have nuclear weapons if we aren’t going to use them?”

    Come on Republicans. All it takes is three senators with spines to block Comrade Donald. Grab your viagra and get to work.

    • Earl Earl

      Where was all the outrage against Hillary? If those Dem Dip-shits had put anyone other than her against Trump he wouldn’t be the President right now. That’s what they get for thinking that entitled bitch would just waltz right into the White House. Talk about stupid people

      The FBI director was a buffoon anyways. Trump did him a favor

      We are all screwed because Washington is so corrupt it cant be fixed . Term limits please

      • copanut copanut

        … but… but… but… HILLARY!!!

        How about just owning the unhinged, incompetent, sociopathic douche bag that you helped to put into office?

        Not being a Democrat, I had nothing to do with Hillary’s nomination. I have no ownership of it. But I do have ownership of having had the wits to not vote for the utter disgrace that is currently occupying the White House, who is every bit exactly what I warned he would be. Every. Bit. Exactly.

        No matter what Hillary’s real flaws may be, she would have been far and away better than this, and in any event would have been kept in check by an opposing Republican Congress. Anyone who doesn’t see that at this point simply is not capable of objectivity.

        Here is how to tell who is being objective. Let’s pretend that Trump had run as a Democrat. You and I would both agree that he was the worst piece of garbage on the planet.

        I don’t even know what to make of this statement:

        “The FBI director was a buffoon anyways. Trump did him a favor ”

        Should we pretend for a minute that Comey is a buffoon? Okay, so what does it matter? This is not about Comey’s buffoonery. It’s about obstruction of justice in a comically transparent attempt to cover up shockingly treasonous activity on the part of some and gross incompetence on the part of others.

        Who are you trying to kid? If Comey had agreed to bend knee and fellate Trump, he would still have a job regardless of any real or alleged buffoonery.

        • Earl Earl

          Such an angry little man

          • copanut copanut

            … but… but… but… HILLARY!!!

          • abennihana abennihana

            Since it bears on this conversation,… there are a bunch of terms being used by people to describe Trump supporters.
            Trumpsters
            Trumpkins
            The Tiny Hands Brigade
            Trumpublicans, by those of us who wish the GOP was still sane.
            Mother Drumpfers
            Trumplodytes
            Idiots, Retards….. by the angry progessives who are every bit as nasty and intolerant as the Trumpublicans they hate.

            But, my favorite nickname for them is the one our buddy Walsh coined:
            Trump-Davidians.
            It’s a keeper.

      • abennihana abennihana

        <>

        Agreed.

      • abennihana abennihana

        Agreed.

      • abennihana abennihana

        “Where was all the outrage against Hillary? If those Dem Dip-shits had put anyone other than her against Trump he wouldn’t be the President right now. That’s what they get for thinking that entitled bitch would just waltz right into the White House. Talk about stupid people.”

        Agreed.

        Sooner or later I’ll understand all of the rules of character use on this particular board…..

  53. abennihana abennihana

    The Binary Concept: We are all either Liberal or Conservative…
    Is 1 of the Dumbest Fucking Ideas that you were ever convinced to believe.

  54. Earl Earl

    America is back !! Thank you President Turnip.

    • Earl Earl

      It looks like someone hacked my post and disrespected the President . Why do they hate America? Fucking liberal sore losers

      • copanut copanut

        Damned Russians! Put Jared on it.

      • abennihana abennihana

        You know it wasn’t me. I refer to him as President Orangesicle.

  55. Earl Earl

    I think Comey just took down Trump with his testimony . I don’t condone the President pulling that bullshit . I’m not sure he can survive this one .

  56. J A M E S H J A M E S H

    Trump’s Lies to Date, The Definitive List

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/06/23/opinion/trumps-lies.html

    Does truth not matter anymore?

    • copanut copanut

      In a world where we’ve allowed Russian propaganda trolls to drive our political debate over a cliff and put Americans at each other’s throats while ushering a professional con man and his coterie of weasels into the Oval Office, truth indeed seems to have little meaning. It’s a pretty sad state of affairs.

      It’s a safe bet that he’ll crash and burn. The only question is how long it will take and how much damage he does in the process, factors primarily under the control of the GOP. If they step up and do their job rather than play politics or cower in fear, they have a chance of earning my respect and possible vote in the future. Well, maybe not McConnell, that hopeless sad sack of excrement, but hopefully some others.

  57. copanut copanut

    I’m not sure what to make of these health care proposals. I think both the House and Senate plans fail to improve on ACA. Neither of them “repeal” ACA, but only make changes that are mostly for the worse, so the whole “repeal” narrative is just political nonsense.

    Being entirely selfish, though, there is one provision of the House version that I liked – basing the pricing of plans on age rather than income. The income based approach is a logistical mess and also encourages cheating. Unfortunately the Senate version reverts back to the existing ACA approach, so the Senate version has nothing positive going for it at all.

    But that doesn’t keep the GOP from making political doublespeak statements about it. My favorite is McConnell saying today that the Senate bill will reduce insurance premiums. And you know what? He’s probably right about that! The coverage will be inferior so of course the premiums will go down. What you’d really like is for him to be honest and to say “Your coverage will be much worse but your premium will be somewhat lower.” I guess you could take it further and say “Many people will not have to pay a premium at all – because they won’t have any coverage at all.” Crazy stupidness.

    It’s all pretty rich coming from these scumbags who get the best coverage in the world all at the expense of the taxpayers. Where can you get full time pay and benefits for part-time work? Easy, get elected to the House or Senate.

  58. J A M E S H J A M E S H

    Mr. Trump, we’re trying to raise children here. Could you please just go away?

  59. copanut copanut

    It seems to me that there is an apt football analogy to the spectacle of this White House. Here are some of those who have participated in the administration, along with their days on the job (several of which are all time records for brevity):

    Reince Priebus, 189 days
    Derek Harvey, 186 days
    Michael Short, 186 days
    Sean Spicer, 182 days
    Walter Shaub, 180 days
    Robert Iger, 133 days
    Elon Musk, 132 days
    K.T. McFarland, 117 days
    James B. Comey Jr., 109 days
    Angella Reid, 105 days
    Mike Dubke, 85 days
    Katie Walsh, 69 days
    Craig Deare, 26 days
    Mike Flynn, 22 days
    Sally Yates, 10 days
    Anthony Scaramucci, 10 days

    Reince left a few days ago saying he wanted to give Mooch a “clean slate”. Hours ago, Mooch left saying he wanted to give Reince’s replacement a “clean slate”.

    Suddenly it struck me that we have observed this level of continual turnover, dysfunction, and chaos in the NFL for quite some time. Yes, Trump runs his White House the way Cleveland runs its football team.

    Welcome to the Factory of Madness.

    • J A M E S H J A M E S H

      Stephen Colbert: “The White House is being run like an organized crime family……………….except without the organized part.”

      • copanut copanut

        That explains why The Don needs a new caporegime.

  60. copanut copanut

    Sadly, there are many, many cases where cops go overboard even when people are fully cooperating. This used to be he-said he-said stuff but cameras have brought this scourge to light. Most cops are great, but a small number are psychopaths on a power trip and they need to be weeded out for all our sakes – any of us could be on the losing end of a lunatic’s baton.

    • Earl Earl

      I’m sure it happens . I think they were looking for an active shooter so all bets are off to some degree. Cops are getting killed at an alarming rate


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